Channelers are now massively overpowered

[Evilina]

wasn't going to bother mentioning practices, but since you bring them up

You have 1 practice session remaining, -2 spell practices remaining, and 2 trade practices remaining.
You are skilled in the following:
Agility (Cost: 1), (61%), (fair)
Create Food (Cost: 1), (61%), (fair)
Create Water (Cost: 1), (61%), (fair)
Cure Critic (Cost: 1), (85%), (very good)
Poison (Cost: 1), (93%), (superb)
Sanctuary (Cost: 1), (85%), (very good)
Strength (Cost: 1), (61%), (fair)
Regen (Cost: 1), (80%), (good)
Locate Life (Cost: 1), (85%), (very good)
Gate (Cost: 1), (93%), (superb)
Fire (Cost: 1000), (Level 10)
Water (Cost: 4), (Level 7)
Earth (Cost: 4), (Level 7)
Air (Cost: 4), (Level 7)
Spirit (Cost: 4), (Level 7)
Create Fire (Cost: 1), (99%), (superb)
Immolate (Cost: 1), (99%), (superb)
Blaze (Cost: 1), (93%), (superb)
Thunderclap (Cost: 1), (99%), (superb)
Drain (Cost: 1), (93%), (superb)
Slow (Cost: 1), (93%), (superb)
Decay (Cost: 1), (99%), (superb)
Slice (Cost: 1), (85%), (very good)
Kick (Cost: 2), (89%), (superb)
Track (Cost: 2), (19%), (Level 1)
Dodge (Cost: 2), (99%), (superb)
Notice (Cost: 2), (99%), (Level 8)
Troll Tongue (Cost: 0), (100%), (superb)
Staves (Cost: 3), (99%), (superb)
Survival (Cost: 2), (85%), (Level 7)
New Tongue (Cost: 0), (100%), (superb)

oh look, I have all the damage weaves I need to kill anyone, plus I can heal and buff people and make gates and locate and poison and make food/water and restore moves and steal spell points and protect from weaves and drain moves. really, I can get anything I want and barely make any sacrifices

oh look I can practice a lot of weaves but still get sat down and choked out a ton.

Lets be honest, channie vs other skills balance is in accordance with max dgm weaves vs bash and other interrupting and/or + dmg skills, but what cant be balanced is the instant short weave dmg skill that can land before a flee.

No matter the argument of warrior, ranger, thief, remort vs channie argument the above is 100% accurate.

[Chase]

I agree with Evilina. No matter who, if the person is a skilled channeler, they almost always win 1 v 1. From a basic warrior to a remort, you will usually lose against a channeler. Mainly because of the weaves which are 1.5 seconds so they hit during flees. This is even more so in groups when channelers dictate group fights. Just target the leader, strongest char, or person most likely to flee, and your group has won.

[Evilina]

Let us also agree balancing chanies vs other classes is diffifult and won't be perfected in a day, so moderate changes is what is called for.

[Koradin]

I propose three changes:


1. Make weaves incorporate dodge and abs, meaning dodgers will avoid some weaves, and absers will make them deal less damage.

2. Change the CHOKE command to only work when the target isn't already choked.

3. Give channelers less spell pracs, forcing them to specialize (at least a little).

[Ifrit]

IMO channelers need to be glass cannons.

The agility weave needs to be tweaked. As it stands a channler can pretty much hit the same DB as a 19 dex char. This needs to change.

Secondly, most channlers have 75% of the hps that other chars have.

Channlers need to have some kind of REAL malus, like -db or -pb, less hps maybe even increased damage while bashed or some other change that makes it easier for other non channy chars to damage them

Personally i think this can be accomplished by lowering all channlers hps by 25-50 and removing the agility weave

[Ciarra]

[quote="Koradin"]I propose three changes:


1. Make weaves incorporate dodge and abs, meaning dodgers will avoid some weaves, and absers will make them deal less damage.

2. Change the CHOKE command to only work when the target isn't already choked.

3. Give channelers less spell pracs, forcing them to specialize (at least a little).[/quote]

I don't believe any of this in necessary. Channelers will nearly always win in a 1v1 i will give you that, but they will also nearly always get tapped in a 1v1 before the target is dead; rendering them useless. Lowering weave damage will just make this worse. Choke sucks, but i understand it is necessary to be able to fight a channeler well enough. There is also no reason why spell pracs need to be lowered, I have no idea why some people seems to have the ability to practice as much as he can but I certainly do not have that luxury. I will admit channelers have alot of attacks at their disposal, but simply having alot of attacks doesnt make you win automatically. I will continue to rant later but I gotta get to work.

[Gestahl]

your pracs suck because you're doing it wrong. since you went tornado, you should just get call lightning instead of immolate. would save you a ton of pracs

[Gestahl]

regarding the thread: I'd say easy changes that would help the situation would be to increase the length of the super short weaves (create fire, thunderclap, air scythe etc) by .5 seconds and the length of long weaves (immolate, rend, etc) by 1.0 seconds. Also possibly decrease the damage of fireball, arms of air, other stuff at that level slightly. Doing this makes it much harder to stack short weaves on someone while they are fleeing, and also lowers the speed at which a channeler dumps their damage

[Ifrit]

better yet, add a 1 sec delay between casting weaves. Won't affect teh speed of the weave but will affect casting multiple weaves in a row

[Chase]

You shouldn't be able to choke someone who is already choked, imo.

Pracs need to be downed and possibly hps.

Weaves should definitey continue to disregard defense. That, or make certain weaves work better against abser than against dodgers, and vice-versa. Like fire melts absers while dodgers can dodge it sometimes, where as air doesn't hurt absers as much but dodgers cant see it so they can't dodge it as well..

[Ciarra]

[quote="Gestahl"]your pracs suck because you're doing it wrong. since you went tornado, you should just get call lightning instead of immolate. would save you a ton of pracs[/quote]

Thanks for the tip:P Ill try it sometime.

[Ciarra]

You shouldn't be able to choke someone who is already choked, imo.

Pracs need to be downed and possibly hps.

Weaves should definitey continue to disregard defense. That, or make certain weaves work better against abser than against dodgers, and vice-versa. Like fire melts absers while dodgers can dodge it sometimes, where as air doesn't hurt absers as much but dodgers cant see it so they can't dodge it as well..

I was thinking this same thing earlier :D cept the lower pracs and hps :P.
Channelers do not need an hp reduction. it would bring my already low hps even lower. hunters rogues and warriors all have the ability to get 100+ more hps then channelers. If channelers get an hp reduction then rogues should also get the same reduction. As far as pracs I still do not see how downing pracs will solve anything. Maybe pracs should be downed but then dreadlords and Aes Sedai should receive a bonus in pracs equating to the pracs they currently have. (example: if pracs for channelers are downed by 10 across the board then dreadlords and Aes Sedai should receive a +10 spell pracs bonus) (now that i think about it maybe black tower should get those too but then again as far as i know they already have bonuses that other channelers dont)

[Kathryn]

How do you equate channelers and rogues? Why should rogues get a hp reduction along with channelers? Where is your reasoning behind that? I'd like a valid, well thought out reason, please.

Channies have too many practices.

And no, BT doesn't get a bonus.

[Ciarra]

How do you equate channelers and rogues? Why should rogues get a hp reduction along with channelers? Where is your reasoning behind that? I'd like a valid, well thought out reason, please.

Channies have too many practices.

And no, BT doesn't get a bonus.

Well honestly there is no reason channelers should get an hp reduction. There hps are already low enough. I was bashed with one person on me and went from beaten to dead in 3 hits.(2 bashed hits and one before my flee went through)

I will admit maybe channelers do have too many practices but i am still failing to see how having less practices will make them any less effective in any situation.

As far as bt having a bonus i am not completely sure because I heard it from tyson.

As far as im concerned channelers are fine as they are. Yes in a 1v1 with a channeler they will usually win. That is the simple truth. Fighting a channeler as a non-channeler requires mobs and luck. Channelers are already easier to kill then most other classes, they just deal alot of damage in a short amount of time, but that is offset by the lower hps,dex,str and by SPs which are often gone before someone is dead.

[Ciarra]

Ohh and there are things to do to stop channeling. If you get low from a channeler just walk into a stedding and they will probably be unable to finish you. And last i remember stedding Quchin (sp?) is right next to gap. and the abandonded stedding e of wb. A channeler cannot even sense the true source while here making their damage output close to nothing. There are also lots of hard to channel rooms to use.

[Ciarra]

Sorry for making 3 posts in a row but i will also say that the damage ranges for immolate and rend are 44-74 and 49-79. I think the max possible damage should be lowered by 10 making them 44-64 and 49-69 ohh then lower blizzard by 5 from 44-64 to 44-59. Call lightning and riven earth may need to be lowered by 5 too making them 39-54 and 49-54.

[Kathryn]

You were beaten. . . you should have died.

[Ciarra]

Right, as a channeler at beat if I get bashed i should die, well i do. unless you think a channeler at battered should die in one bash then there is no reason channie hps need to be downed.

[Gestahl]

Nerfing damage output and survivability at the same time is a bad idea. Stick with one for now, and if down the line there are still problems with channelers then maybe look at the other.

[Evilina]

^
I concur

small changes folks.

[Ciarra]

Im trying to say survivability isnt the problem. its the damage output.

[Phantasm]

i like the idea of increasing weave timers, i would also be pretty happy seeing them fail on % (if they do, i don't know, it's low ) ... there is just no way ciarra's level 28 FC should be able to wipe the floor with me the way she just did, no mobs, just weaving

edit: alternatively yeah you could decrease their def and hps, that'd work too. ifrit's glass cannon term fits the bill nicely

edit 2: apparently that was not ciarra's alt, but someone else

[Madison]

I am not Ciarra. :D Thank you though! I had to repay you for that stab earlier today!

[Phantasm]

hah i couldn't believe how many flamestrikes you were able to hit me with when i was trying to flee... like three at a time

[Evilina]

You need to play a class before you request nerfage.

Phan without fleelag a channie can get off 1 create fire which is 1.5 secs, not flame strike which is 3.25 secs, with max fleelag I can land 2 create fires which is 30 - 50 dmg, but on the same note a basher using a steel-bound can land a bash vs someone fleeing with max fleelag which results in 36 - 48 dmg plus dmg multiplier.

I dislike the idea of increasing weave timers at least on weaves that already take a few months to cast, channies are already the favorite target for thieves, increasing timers just makes them all that more easy to stab. As is I spend a large percentage of my online time running weaves and hoping I dont eat a stab.

Fast weaves are the issue, whens the last time someone died cause a channie was spamming rend? lol

Increasing fail rate of weaves is the exact same as lowering % chance of a stab or a bash landing, not all that awesome when you can't utilize a skill you have practiced to 99%.

Increase create fire and air scythe timers a little, test it in pk, and go from there.