Charge/Skewer

Post by **Fogel** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:57 am

I'm going to be changing and rebalancing Charge/Skewer in the near future, so if they are behaving differently than you are used to don't be alarmed.

Feel free to use this thread for any comments, suggestions and feedback regarding the upcoming changes.

Current status of charge and skewer:

-Both spears and lances can charge and skewer
-Charge/skewer can be completed after being engaged
-Charge/skewer can be started while engaged (won't finish unless current target flees off)
-Timer has been shortened to 2 seconds
-Minimal lag upon landing a charge/skewer
-Approximately one round of lag upon missing a charge/skewer
-Skewer cannot be performed indoors
-Stats have been changed significantly for lances and spears, resulting in much lower damage and slightly lower landing rates

Post by **Fogel** » Fri May 01, 2009 6:20 pm

The first of these changes are in. The timer has been shortened, lag has been adjusted, and the situations in which you can begin a charge have been changed. Post any and all feedback

Aj · Post by Aj » Fri May 01, 2009 6:50 pm

shortened timer? man that's insta kills on me with my lag

Kadaj · Post by **Kadaj** » Sat May 02, 2009 7:27 am

With skewer being even shorter can you make it not work indoors since that basically gives trolls a 3 pulse stab for everything indoors that humans don't have?

A Small Guardhouse
Barely large enough to hold the three men on duty, this one-room house is
filled by the contraption that opens and closes the giant Malkier gate.
Through a small crack in the ceiling, the forms of the watchful archers can be
made out.
[ Exits: w u ]
A wooden shelf hangs here with various items on it.
A proud veteran Shienaran soldier stands here, ready for battle.
A proud veteran Shienaran soldier stands here, ready for battle.

HP:Battered MV:Excellent >
skewer soldier
There isn't enough room for you to run like that!

Post by **Fogel** » Sat May 02, 2009 11:19 am

I'll look into it

Kadaj · Post by **Kadaj** » Sat May 02, 2009 11:37 am

Another thing... When I charge someone and they charge, seemingly at the same time, obviously its not going to print our messages on the same line, but is there a "charge off" like bash or should I just not bother when their name shows up first? If so could that be changed to be some kinda of charge off?

Post by **Fogel** » Sat May 02, 2009 11:44 am

That's a good idea, I'll look into that as well.

Durge · Post by **Durge** » Sat May 02, 2009 11:44 am

How about allowing lances or spears to be used for both charge and skewer? If you think about it, both weapon classes could feasibly used to charge from a horse or charge as a trolloc because a spear is long and pointy, and a lance is long and pointy.

Post by **Alder** » Sat May 02, 2009 4:41 pm

Fogel, there needs to be a check to see if the person charging is fighting or not. Right now it is possible to start a charge timer while you are fighting. Although the charge doesn't go through at the end of timer:

HP:Healthy MV:Fresh >
You stab a Queen's Guard of Andor's hands extremely hard.

HP:Healthy MV:Fresh - a Queen's Guard of Andor: Scratched>

An ordinary commoner sneezes all over a white stallion!
A Queen's Guard of Andor sneezes all over you!

HP:Healthy MV:Fresh - a Queen's Guard of Andor: Scratched>
charge guard
You begin charging towards a Queen's Guard of Andor.

HP:Healthy MV:Fresh - a Queen's Guard of Andor: Scratched>
% = +
No way! You're fighting for your life here!

Perhaps just make it like stab in that if the charge is started before getting engaged, and your target does not engage on anyone, then the charge will still go through to your target. Right now it seems a bit backward.

Post by **Fogel** » Sun May 03, 2009 11:15 am

I added the starting while engaged on purpose. Think carefully about what variations to combat it implies, and you'll agree that it makes for an interesting experiment.

Evilina · Post by **Evilina** » Sun May 03, 2009 4:36 pm

I don't understand why we are upping charge and skewer, players who have these abilities usually have bash as well. Thieves need work, all they have is stab and not a secondary pk skill to rely on.

Post by **Fogel** » Sun May 03, 2009 6:19 pm

I'm fixing easy things for now, after my semester is done I'll take a look at thieves and see what needs to be done.

Post by **Fogel** » Fri May 08, 2009 1:25 am

New changes that may or may not be in yet as of this post:

-You will be able to complete a charge/skewer if you start it on a target, and a different target engages you
-Skewer will no longer be usable indoors
-Starting a skewer on an engaged target has been fixed
-Lances and spears should both be able to charge and skewer. Revamps of both weapon classes will accompany this in the near future.

As always, post any and all comments, suggestions and bugs.

Evilina · Post by **Evilina** » Fri May 08, 2009 2:12 am

I hate you fogel

Post by **Fogel** » Fri May 08, 2009 12:56 pm

Completing charges/skewers after being engaged has temporarily been disabled until a couple minor bugs have been worked out

Post by **Fogel** » Fri May 15, 2009 1:15 pm

All known bugs have been fixed, and the original post has been updated with all changes made so far. Please report any new problems that arise, in addition to thoughts/suggestions to the changes so far.

Phantasm · Post by **Phantasm** » Sat May 16, 2009 6:51 pm

*obligatory comment about length of charge timer vs. length of stab timer, comparing damage done, with attention to other capabilities of warrior and thief class and a comparison thereof*

Post by **Fogel** » Tue May 19, 2009 11:24 pm

Spears and lances have been changed. I tried to keep the order of the top weapons from each class approximately the same, but the stats of each may have changed significantly. A few things to keep in mind with the new changes:

-Lances will typically charge more consistently and for better damage than spears, as well as weigh more
-Spears will have higher ob and pb than lances
-One handed weapons in each class will charge worse than two handed weapons, but will have much higher ob and the parry should work out better with a shield
-Charge damage across the board has been lowered considerably, and landing rate dropped a bit as well

I also increased missed charge lag by ~50%.

I reserve the right to tweak the stats further as I see fit. Please provide feedback, and report anything that might seem out of whack.

Chase · Post by **Chase** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:40 pm

How badly was landing % nuked??? I landed 1/5 today on players..

Aj · Post by Aj » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:42 pm

Fogel wrote: I also increased missed charge lag by ~50%.

I'm not a charge fan but with the coming changes to the thief class I'd prefer we take charge lag vs stab balance into consideration, if thieves get other means of dealing damage I do not wish to see free stabs on missed charges.

Chase · Post by **Chase** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:16 pm

Its not remotely enough to get stabbed.

Evilina · Post by **Evilina** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:58 am

man charge is bad enough when you have a crappy link but being able to start a charge on someone you are engaged on is to damn much, if they flee and hit the wrong direction then its a totally free kill.

Honestly the changes to skewer and charge target only newbs and those with shitty internet, I've died maybe 10 times this month to charge from lag spikes. It's not to hard to add a %1 begins charging at you; k xxx, but then again the person who dies is the one with the shitty isp.

Kadaj · Post by **Kadaj** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:05 am

I kinda have to agree with Evi... Interesting idea and I don't land all that many charges on people its really like starting a stab timer engaged +100 dmg.

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh - Obould: Wounded>
% -
*Obould* panics, and attempts to flee!

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh - Obould: Wounded>

*
charge dark

Your bash at *Obould* sends him sprawling!

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh - Obould: Wounded>
Obould is stunned... You can't seem to reach the right spot!

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh - Obould: Wounded>

Kiril flails out at *Obould*, who steps out of the way.

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh - Obould: Wounded>

A tall trolloc spy tries to pound Kiril's arms, but misses.
Kiril pierces *Obould*'s legs very hard.
You stab *Obould*'s legs extremely hard.

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh - Obould: Battered>

A tall trolloc spy tries to pound Kiril's body, but misses.
Kiril pierces *Obould*'s body.
You stab *Obould*'s feet into bloody fragments!

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh - Obould: Battered>
charge dark
Obould is stunned... You can't seem to reach the right spot!

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh - Obould: Battered>
charge dark
Obould is stunned... You can't seem to reach the right spot!

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh - Obould: Battered>

Kiril panics, and attempts to flee!

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh - Obould: Battered>
charge dark
Obould is stunned... You can't seem to reach the right spot!

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh - Obould: Battered>
charge dark
Kiril leaves west.
*Obould* leaves north.
*Obould* has arrived from the north.
You begin charging towards Obould.

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh >
%
*Obould* leaves south.

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh >
= +
*Obould* has arrived from the south.

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh >

You CHARGE *Obould*, who doesn't get the opportunity to see his body get torn in half.
*Obould* grimaces in pain.
You receive some experience points!
Your fame around the world has increased.
Your blood freezes as you hear *Obould*'s death cry.
*Obould* is dead! R.I.P.

Evilina · Post by **Evilina** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:10 am

Yeah I let you get me low to make things interesting and see how far I could get you two to chase me, seriously didnt expect that type of charge. Makes me reconsider playing ballsy and out numbered especially considering my low max hps.

Post by **Fogel** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:40 am

A few things...

man charge is bad enough when you have a crappy link

Not really much I can do about this. The best I can do is up the timer slightly, which I will take into consideration.

start a charge on someone you are engaged on is to damn much, if they flee and hit the wrong direction then its a totally free kill.

That's the whole point of it, to make you think when you are fleeing. And it has trade offs too. A person is sacrificing potential chasing time, something very important on a MUD as fast as this one.

its really like starting a stab timer engaged +100 dmg.

Incorrect on the damage, charge damage was decreased considerably. There are only two charging weapons that average for more than 300 hps. Damage is fine right now imo, however I am willing to consider further decreasing the landing rate.

Also...

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh - Obould: Battered>
charge dark
Kiril leaves west.
*Obould* leaves north.
*Obould* has arrived from the north.
You begin charging towards Obould.

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh >

This particular charge was not started while Obould was engaged. Not really a big deal since your points are independent of the example, but I have to point out that since I made this possible not a single charge (that I am aware of) has been landed from it. If no one has successfully used it in 3 months, is it really that big of a deal?

Thanks for the comments so far. Keep posting feedback on these issues and I will see what I can do.