Dodge?

[Zenrin]

And, you started out wounded.

Nicotine is also a dodger & a stabber. Sitting in one room melee'ing someone is not meant to be his specialty. Bash has a rather long timer, and it is quite hard to get someone to sit still long enough to run the bash timer with the rate of flee-lag as it was last I PK'd.

What Gerard is showing is not that he was unable to kill Nicotine, but that he missed plenty of bashes, contrary to the claims here which are over-exaggerated. For example:

Every single weapon bashes dodge near 100%

Already dis-proven as inaccurate. Post back when you have real statistical proof.

common weapons like those polished silver lances that everyone on LS seems to be running around with.

Definitely not common. Though definitely not rare. Read below.

Also, the very fact that the best set can be bashed by a common weapon shows how icky the situation is.

Again, inaccurate. That lance is not common. Secondly, since it's uncommon, if you were to continue to believe that it should be unable to ever bash a high-end kit, then that kit would be near invulnerable unless it met another high-end weapon, whereas ABS is always susceptible to damage.

The real problem may be that that some weapons are able to bash at higher rates than are reasonable. Not "all weapons need to be downed".

I've dodged maybe 3 bashes since I've been back

The log above proves this to be WAY inaccurate. That's eight bashes I counted. More inaccuracy.

Basically, get the facts straight before you start claiming things. Growler wants all bashing %'s downed, and that is such a drastic move that doing it wrongly would be pretty devastating and move balance to the opposite extreme. So when you guys keep making these claims without backing them up, you're asking for someone to make the wrong move because they'd be doing it with false information.

So how about some accuracy?

[Durge]

Nicotine I just want to tell you that dark steel lance is rare and is the best lance in the game as far as bashing charge damage and pb goes. I found that polished silver lance was a bit too good in the fact that it weighs the same as dark steel lance, more ob, a little less pb, about same melee damage, and less charge damage. Perhaps Heavy polished lance should be downed in ob and pb to make it a bit farther away from the stats on dark steel lance. And Nyoga when you are talking about stab, you never counted in the fact that if you have a silver etched dagger, emerald knife, lion etched dagger, it is nearly 100% possible to kill someone in one stab if they are anywhere from hurt to dead if they have less than 420 max hps which is the case in most players except for heavy warriors etc.

[Gerard]

thanks, will do

[Otoan]

heavy polished isn't that common to down it. not pb at least because sucks ass on heavy polished. people think heavy polished is 15 lbs when it's actually 13. it does get very good ob however. the only thing about heavy polished is it loads on a smob that pops every 10 minutes and can be taken by 2 chargers.

i think the thing should be that dodge should be improved. or the better stuff able to get in smobbing. has anyone ever gotten a set better than 95 db just by smobbing? i have tried. it is very difficult, at least on ls, because there are always a few trolls on and since all smobs are in spammable doors it's very difficult to do them.

I can tell you 95 db is not good to pk with. Most weapons bash it very frequently, while it might not be 100% I would dare to say it is not much better than just wearing abs(if it is at all).

The log of nicotine not getting bashed does not necessarily mean dodge is fine. nicotine was in a pretty good set and gerard was in 44% abs, had lower hp to start with, and a dark gleaming axe which is a very very terrible bashing weapon.

I find that 100+ db is decent. I dodged a fair bit by high end weapons with 103 db mounted on otoan. much better was the 110 i got dismounted. but it just seems below 100 db is worthless. and it's very difficult to get anything better than 100 db.

edit: i don't think it's as much the heavy polished that makes it so great but the fact that me and durge(the people i know who use it) have 19 str, 99% lances and 99% bash. i really do think those practices make all the difference in the world. 92% would probably be a lot less % to bash.

[Nicotine]

You're right, I was way overexaggerating and I apologize.

However, I still think bash needs looking into.

[Gerard]

the point of my log was to please remind people to not confuse imms with crap data.

It is not to dispute dodge or whatnot.

And yes, praccing weapon/bash to 99/99 makes an ENTIRELY huge difference.

[Durge]

I don't know about anyone else but I have max bmi I'm pretty sure. That also plays a decent role in bashing abilities against others.

[Lamgwin]

Growler my ds alt has a 101 db kit with 17% abs and he does just fine in pk. Also nyoga, i died on lamgwin last week to 3 different stabs. I got stabbed while trying to finish off a crit growler with shrek in room i fled out to come back in and hit him and died to the stab. I died to another stab while narrating at the camp in gap. Then i don't speifically remember how i died to the third stab but i remember i did. That was 3 stabs i died to in a few days. Stabs can blick very high hps and have a very high landing% on that silver and gold etched dagger. It has the highest damage range and a very very good land %. The 3 people who killed me were all 3/3 at least, i don't think i've been bricked on, on lamgwin.

[Lithium]

I considered that lance common because 3/4 dodge bash humans I saw over two days had one. Otoan, Durge, Marth. That constitutes a common PK weapon imo.

[Raiden]

maybe thats because no other weapon is worthy of dodge bash ,....!

[Growler]

Zenrin, you're just jumping at my obvious exaggerations. Of course stuff doesn't get landed on 100%. Nothing is 100%. However, the issue at hand here is that a good dodge set is near useless for dodging bashes from almost any pker.

My point here is that dodge only becomes useful when you get that perfect, or near perfect set. Zenrin, I'd like to see you, or Lamgwin play a 95 DB set, and see how well you do vs any human pker. Then come back and let me know. I've been playing dodge for quite a while, and I can tell you that the balance of non perfect dodge is quite crap.

[Growler]

Growler my ds alt has a 101 db kit with 17% abs and he does just fine in pk. Also nyoga, i died on lamgwin last week to 3 different stabs. I got stabbed while trying to finish off a crit growler with shrek in room i fled out to come back in and hit him and died to the stab. I died to another stab while narrating at the camp in gap. Then i don't speifically remember how i died to the third stab but i remember i did. That was 3 stabs i died to in a few days. Stabs can blick very high hps and have a very high landing% on that silver and gold etched dagger. It has the highest damage range and a very very good land %. The 3 people who killed me were all 3/3 at least, i don't think i've been bricked on, on lamgwin.

Wow, two of those were mine. I feel so proud

Oh, and what your alt does in PK is kind of irrelevent. Only thing I'm saying is that the balance of dodge is screwed up.

[Growler]

Oh, and 97 DB is this: (this is merely theoretical, of course, because in pk you have packs and food and flasks)

<worn around neck> a gleaming gold medallion
<worn around neck> a gleaming gold medallion
<worn in right ear> a ruby earring in the shape of a heart
<worn in left ear> a ruby earring in the shape of a heart
<worn on head> a rock colored shoufa
<worn about body> a dark brown cloak
<worn on body> a tough grolm hide
<worn on shoulders> a set of white leather shoulder pads with scales
<worn on arms> a pair of dark fur sleeves
<worn about waist> a black leather belt with a silver buckle
<worn around wrist> a sparkling golden armlet
<worn around wrist> a sparkling golden armlet
<worn on hands> a pair of sleek black gloves
<worn on finger> a gold ring
<worn on finger> a gold ring
<wielded> a silver dagger with gold etching
<worn as shield> a thin steel wall shield
<worn on legs> a pair of dark cloth leggings
<worn on feet> a pair of gold-fringed boots


While it isn't perfect, why is this set so bad that it should be eaten up in pk? I just don't understand this.

[Nyoga]

thanks Smasher.

[Lamgwin]

Man this sure gets annoying. I was using blue axes a lot and they got downed. Then i moved to the collosal war hammers and i was using those and they got downed. Now im using nocturn and it got downed. Is this a sick joke by smasher?!

[Jack]

Jack Bauer got downed too! BLASPHEMY

[Lamgwin]

Smasher in referring to the random ob/weight downings that are unannounced. There is a reason why no one used blue axes anymore when everyone did a few months ago. Then collosal war hammers were downed a little bit now nocturn just got downed some. All of these downings have been unannounced, they just are different one day when i log on and type stat. Since you posted something about changing some trinks and you said you did one or two other tweaks i assumed you changed nocturn considering you are the balance imm. Oh well, i'd just be extremely happy if the best bashing weapon would stay the same for more than a month.

[Jack]

Sergeant Lamgwin, Jack Bauer believes it was the berserker pendants that were downed! Jack Bauer removed His and His immaculate OB increased.

[Lithium]

That's a good balance, berserker pendants never should have given such a great bonus without taking something away.