Someone please explain how this happened
HP:Battered MV:Excellent >
They don't seem to be here.
The gate is opened from the other side.
k dark
HP:Battered MV:Excellent >
*Ghast* has arrived from the north.
k dark
HP:Battered MV:Excellent >
You try to slice *Ghast*'s legs, but miss.
HP:Battered MV:Excellent - Ghast: Battered>
k dark
You do the best you can!
HP:Battered MV:Excellent - Ghast: Battered>
You do the best you can!
HP:Battered MV:Excellent - Ghast: Battered>
You do the best you can!
HP:Battered MV:Excellent - Ghast: Battered>
You try to slice *Ghast*'s feet, but miss.
HP:Battered MV:Excellent - Ghast: Battered>
kick
bash
Your kick hits *Ghast* in the solar plexus!
HP:Battered MV:Excellent - Ghast: Beaten>
HP:Battered MV:Excellent - Ghast: Beaten>
* *Ghast* panics, and attempts to flee! (bash timer starts, so not kick lag)
HP:Battered MV:Excellent - Ghast: Beaten> (Canceled bash)
- k dark
A high-rank Shienaran soldier assists you!
A high-rank Shienaran soldier tries to cleave *Ghast*'s arms, but misses.
A high-rank Shienaran soldier assists a high-rank Shienaran soldier.
A high-rank Shienaran soldier tries to cleave *Ghast*'s body, but misses.
The north gate keeper tries to slash *Bubonic*'s legs, but misses.
HP:Battered MV:Excellent - Ghast: Beaten>
*Ghast* leaves north.
HP:Battered MV:Excellent >
k dark
k dark
k dark
k dark
k dark
k dark
k dark
Suddenly *Bubonic* stabs you in the back, R.I.P....
You wish that your wounds would stop BLEEDING so much!
Your fame has been diminished.
You are dead! Sorry...
Crossroads of Fate
Ok first, I'm not sure how Bubonic was able to get hidden and stab rolling before I engaged. I was engaged on him maybe 1 min max before this, so he had sufficient no quit. I was also spamming pretty damn hard, so it's not like he walked in that easily. Next, I was spamming AFTER Ghast started to flee. Notice it's not lag from kick because bash starts, but then I cancel.
I'm just waiting on the Imms to finally imp the stab check on whether the person is engaged so you losers will finally stop getting your cheap kills.
These tactics are exactly why people stop pking here. You two go for only the achievement of the kill and not the actual skill and fun in getting the kill. It's sad how people make fun of your tactics for being such complete pansies.
Still Pathetic
Still Pathetic
Last edited by Bradley on Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Still Pathetic
Looks like Bubonic snuck in started timer before you engaged on me when we came in the room together. As for the timestab itself, all I can say is my intention was to avoid getting bashed while beaten at the gate. It was a surprise to me when I heard the death cry.
Re: Still Pathetic
I'm sure. That takes coordination not just a random occurrence. "Avoid being bashed" but still enter from 1n when you knew I was sitting there. That was obviously planned. Notoriously bad basher playing just like his thief.
Instances like this are why this mud has problems a lot. People going for the accomplishment of spamming score over actually accomplishing something and EARNING the kill. You'd rather protect your precious score than take risks.
I could post the past 5 pk sessions vs you and alts and it'd be a lolfest. Spamming quicksand in Murash. 2 fleestabs, running in murash when we both low 1v1, running Murash at hurt when another person shows up. Sounds like the usual.
And though I don't play stab, I know during stab wars you both sit in rooms and just spam backstab. That's hardly a skill because game dynamics mean you'll always win unless you royally screw up. Have a little fun and take some risks ffs.
Instances like this are why this mud has problems a lot. People going for the accomplishment of spamming score over actually accomplishing something and EARNING the kill. You'd rather protect your precious score than take risks.
I could post the past 5 pk sessions vs you and alts and it'd be a lolfest. Spamming quicksand in Murash. 2 fleestabs, running in murash when we both low 1v1, running Murash at hurt when another person shows up. Sounds like the usual.
And though I don't play stab, I know during stab wars you both sit in rooms and just spam backstab. That's hardly a skill because game dynamics mean you'll always win unless you royally screw up. Have a little fun and take some risks ffs.
Re: Still Pathetic
not sure why I am replying to this but here goes...
1. I started the stab before you engaged Ghast. That is why the stab started.. you were NOT engaged on him first.
2. Best I can tell none of your "K Dark" commands actually made it to the mud. The reason for that is....who knows. Maybe the mud lag (that was pretty bad for a lot of that pk session) or maybe your link picked that moment to go on a break. Had the command actually went through then you would have seen hit me, or a message saying they dont seem to be here anymore (or something like that). But based on the log you showed the command never actually went through.
It was a tough way to die, and yes we know you hate the mechanics of stabbing. Name calling because you died in a way that you do not like or you feel takes no skill is probably not the best way to start a debate, but to each his own i guess. Some people enjoy playing thiefs, channies, absers, comboers... There is not a SINGLE way or style of play that fits the mold of the "Best Way" to play.
1. I started the stab before you engaged Ghast. That is why the stab started.. you were NOT engaged on him first.
2. Best I can tell none of your "K Dark" commands actually made it to the mud. The reason for that is....who knows. Maybe the mud lag (that was pretty bad for a lot of that pk session) or maybe your link picked that moment to go on a break. Had the command actually went through then you would have seen hit me, or a message saying they dont seem to be here anymore (or something like that). But based on the log you showed the command never actually went through.
It was a tough way to die, and yes we know you hate the mechanics of stabbing. Name calling because you died in a way that you do not like or you feel takes no skill is probably not the best way to start a debate, but to each his own i guess. Some people enjoy playing thiefs, channies, absers, comboers... There is not a SINGLE way or style of play that fits the mold of the "Best Way" to play.
Re: Still Pathetic
The problem isn't the class, the problem is with the players. I don't remember people complaining about phantasm, dokes, lithium etc. These people played rogues for long periods of time and managed to do it in a way that led to the people pking against them not hating them as individuals. When old players, and new, all come to the conclusion that it's not worth pking against bubonic and ghast and his alts then there's probably something in both of your playstyles that maybe you should look into. Ultimately the game is a community, and a small one at that, so if you're bringing a toxic atmosphere with your pk then maybe you should rethink your approach, especially considering there's not enough people here to get away with selfish unfun pk tactics without backlash.
Re: Still Pathetic
Not really a bad footing for debate. Stab is purposefully made so you can't start on engaged people if you have a certain amount of no quit. This was made so that if the person doesn't "know" you're there (you don't have a certain amount of no quit), then you can start a stab on them. However if you're "known," then you can't start the stab.
This tactic purposefully circumvents that coding so that you can start a stab, have someone buff while the timer rolls, and then flee off. So really you're cheating the system in a way that the imms coded to prevent. Hardly me hating mechanics. I love the way others stab, like Phantasm.
Really put it this way, how would you feel if this happened to you? Granted I lagged or something here, true. But what about the countless other fleestab like logs that have been posted? Do you honestly think it is a fair tactic given that it blatantly gets around code that stops you from running stabs on engaged people?
This tactic purposefully circumvents that coding so that you can start a stab, have someone buff while the timer rolls, and then flee off. So really you're cheating the system in a way that the imms coded to prevent. Hardly me hating mechanics. I love the way others stab, like Phantasm.
Really put it this way, how would you feel if this happened to you? Granted I lagged or something here, true. But what about the countless other fleestab like logs that have been posted? Do you honestly think it is a fair tactic given that it blatantly gets around code that stops you from running stabs on engaged people?
Re: Still Pathetic
I didn't read the full post when it was originally posted and it looks like it was edited. Either way, let's please keep these threads less hostile. You can make your point without resorting to personal attacks. I've been pretty lenient, but if I see any that look like they are over the line(I guess you'll have to take a guess at where I consider the line to be) I will be moving / deleting them.
Re: Still Pathetic
Phantasm, please weigh in on your stab/thief playing tactics.
Re: Still Pathetic
It's just Phantasm plays it so that both sides have a chance. That's how a lot of mudders play their chars.
A lot of people don't call everyone on the mud when they're on someone else. If I know its even pk I usually stay out. I put fleestab the same as me just ganking solo people with a group. Fleestab is a lot harder than a gank to stop. Fleestab is just as much fun as solo pk then having 3+ showing up while you're bashed and low. I feel like coding shows an intent by the imms to make fleestab achievable only when the stabber hasn't been pking recently. However the loophole hasn't been shut down by the imms because it would hurt thieves a lot. So I guess while technically it's allowed, like ganking, it's pretty crappy thing to do.
So that's why fleestab pisses people off. Imagine getting ganked in fairly even pk all the time. During that pk I knew it was highly unlikely I would be able to kill either of you, but I was giving you two a chance at some fun and maybe a kill. I could have just run in Agelmar and spammed the door shut. Then you pull that tactic. Just makes people not want to pk
A lot of people don't call everyone on the mud when they're on someone else. If I know its even pk I usually stay out. I put fleestab the same as me just ganking solo people with a group. Fleestab is a lot harder than a gank to stop. Fleestab is just as much fun as solo pk then having 3+ showing up while you're bashed and low. I feel like coding shows an intent by the imms to make fleestab achievable only when the stabber hasn't been pking recently. However the loophole hasn't been shut down by the imms because it would hurt thieves a lot. So I guess while technically it's allowed, like ganking, it's pretty crappy thing to do.
So that's why fleestab pisses people off. Imagine getting ganked in fairly even pk all the time. During that pk I knew it was highly unlikely I would be able to kill either of you, but I was giving you two a chance at some fun and maybe a kill. I could have just run in Agelmar and spammed the door shut. Then you pull that tactic. Just makes people not want to pk
Re: Still Pathetic
well I don't value getting kills over everyone having a relatively good time, if that's what you mean, and fleestabs piss people off if they're "cheap", but I don't not fleestab. I use it if I think it's justified. i.e. numerical imbalance, to save another DSer, because I don't like the person, etc. but I like to be selective about when I do it for that reason. especially because thieves can do pretty well vs. abs bashers now that we have shield parry and nore timer-interrupting skills
Re: Still Pathetic
I openly apologize for tactics I've used in the past that could be considered cheap and I'm going to make a conscious effort to create more valuable pk across all of my alts.
I would like to note that for Nicotine, this will not make me any less of a "fleebie". For thieves, I can think of only a few ways to play:
1. Be a fleebie and try relentlessly for the stab the majority of the time (this is my style currently)
2. Sneak in and go for the stab, then retreat for 15-30 minutes at a time (I've observed Bollesedun doing this and it works very well to get the unsuspecting stab, but it would bore me to tears)
3. Lean more heavily on melee, using newer skills to interrupt timers like kick, shield block, projectiles
The imms have done an increasingly good job at making every class viable in pk no matter the play style, and on Nicotine I have kick and use projectiles. I don't currently have a shield, which devastates style #3 for me as far as getting a sitting hit on a target, and I've never particularly enjoyed the more-melee side of the pk spectrum.
If anyone has other ideas on how the thief class can be played, please share. I agree that there are situations when using fleestab can be cheap, but I would also argue that actually pulling it off against a spamming target happens less than 1% of the time, and when it does, sometimes it's accidental. I don't expect a lot of you to believe me on that, but I have more stabbing experience than anyone here and I know it's true.
As an aside, precise strike is pointless and no one uses it. Maybe we could change it somehow to be more useful in melee style thieves?
I would like to note that for Nicotine, this will not make me any less of a "fleebie". For thieves, I can think of only a few ways to play:
1. Be a fleebie and try relentlessly for the stab the majority of the time (this is my style currently)
2. Sneak in and go for the stab, then retreat for 15-30 minutes at a time (I've observed Bollesedun doing this and it works very well to get the unsuspecting stab, but it would bore me to tears)
3. Lean more heavily on melee, using newer skills to interrupt timers like kick, shield block, projectiles
The imms have done an increasingly good job at making every class viable in pk no matter the play style, and on Nicotine I have kick and use projectiles. I don't currently have a shield, which devastates style #3 for me as far as getting a sitting hit on a target, and I've never particularly enjoyed the more-melee side of the pk spectrum.
If anyone has other ideas on how the thief class can be played, please share. I agree that there are situations when using fleestab can be cheap, but I would also argue that actually pulling it off against a spamming target happens less than 1% of the time, and when it does, sometimes it's accidental. I don't expect a lot of you to believe me on that, but I have more stabbing experience than anyone here and I know it's true.
As an aside, precise strike is pointless and no one uses it. Maybe we could change it somehow to be more useful in melee style thieves?
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Bollesedun
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:03 am
Re: Still Pathetic
Yeah that unsuspecting stab has always been my bread and butter in the past but people are pretty wise to it for the most part nowadays so I've changed a lot of my tactics up as well. I do a lot of meleeing/blocking because I can usually get from point A to B faster than most. Whats always driven me nuts is when people try to stab war and sit in one room and spam back human/dark. If I come across that I just leave anymore or I'll melee them. My definition of a stab war is trying to maneuver yourself into a position where you can get a stab off first without having to resort to sitting there and spamming. I've pk'd rogues where I would just hide and not even spam and they would leave the room over and over again fearing to try to run a stab. Super conservative.
Things I've noticed from certain rogues is when someone is bashed they will continue to sit and hide in the room rather than melee even if they have no quit. I mean yeah its cool to get a stab off and personally its the most satisfying thing when you stab someone dead but you still gotta look out for your team. If they are losing and some rogue is just sitting there hoping to get a stab off, not contributing the the pk whatsoever then that is just gonna piss your team off and you might even end up dying in the end because you have no backup and get into a bad spot. Especially if they have numbers cause being bashed as a dodger w/ numbers on you is a rough ride.
That said most of the top end stabbers have been criticized one way or another. Its hard to teach an old dog new tricks and when they find success in a certain tactic of course they are going to continue to use it. People are always gonna complain no matter what you do.
Things I've noticed from certain rogues is when someone is bashed they will continue to sit and hide in the room rather than melee even if they have no quit. I mean yeah its cool to get a stab off and personally its the most satisfying thing when you stab someone dead but you still gotta look out for your team. If they are losing and some rogue is just sitting there hoping to get a stab off, not contributing the the pk whatsoever then that is just gonna piss your team off and you might even end up dying in the end because you have no backup and get into a bad spot. Especially if they have numbers cause being bashed as a dodger w/ numbers on you is a rough ride.
That said most of the top end stabbers have been criticized one way or another. Its hard to teach an old dog new tricks and when they find success in a certain tactic of course they are going to continue to use it. People are always gonna complain no matter what you do.