melee pk

[Evilina]

That's where it's at and that's where the best balance lies, how many times have we heard of thieves spam fleeing only to run an insta kill stab, or a channie spam fleeing, taking no damage until they get to a room they are comfortable in, i.e. a patty.

I say let's actually try and balance thieves and channies, Fogel you're kind of a dick for making bash to OP, don't deny it I have tell history to prove ya wrong. Let's balance bash vs db and decrease the amount of time it takes to max fleelag.

I spoke with Chase and he agrees as well thus the two omnipotent mortals of ds and ls have spoken or as my crazy grandfather might say (he was ponca) with these words are the words of truth and wisdom, let them be spoken and heard, for the ways of the buffalo are not to be understood by all men, we shall smoke and sweat over these matters so we may understand them better.

[Tyson]

Yes, lets just down everything until KS becomes a tickle stick vs tickle stick mud like WoTMUD... Cause they're clearly doing it right over there.

[Fogel]

Problem is "balance" is completely subjective. Personally, balance means having a game where people can actually die. Keeping bash strong allows people to die. When dodge is strong, how can you ever kill a thief or channeler (or anyone else in dodge)? Not only can they flee out of your stuff constantly, but when you actually get to complete your timers you miss anyway. That doesn't sound too fun to me.

I might be open to increasing the damage potential of thieves/channelers. But I don't have much time to play this game or do a proper analysis on if/why they're weak, so give me somewhere specific to start.

[Semper]

The problem is stab insta rips. We could chase a thief all day at healthy and him just running... then one lucky stab and we rip. I'd say more, but Evilina said the rest.

[Pitch]

Have a few ideas that will all work well together.

1. mood should affect melee dmg output, stab dmg, charge dmg, and weave dmg. (force dodgers to change their mood from wimpy every so often).

2. new rank 6 skill, ability to change mood from berserk in melee, maybe a 10-20% chance of success with a small wait between each attempt. I'd love to see some ballsy pkers going for zerk stabs, zerking at patties or gates, or zerking to increase immolate dmg.

3. Increase dodge a little, I have 19 str and use a 17 pound chain that has 126 ob, I shouldn't be landing the amount of bashes that I do.

Channies imo are supposed to be glass cannons but with the downing of dodge, Gaius's raping of the weave system (changing earthquake to a long timer, removing rend, downing immolate dmg etc) channies are just glass without the cannon.

[Tyson]

Oh look now Pitch is agreeing with me. You know I bitched about every single change that was made and imms were just like "bash wasn't upped" - uhhh yes it fucking was, do you want me to quote the 10 or so announcements about it while you up it some more? Seriously Fogel, that is the most bullshit I have ever heard come out of your mouth, how on earth are you the imm in charge of balance? Can we get Koradin to replace him or something?

I was like bitching about nerfing channelers too and all you losers were calling me a noob etc who didn't know how to PK or whatever, well fuck you. Currently bash is the MOST overpowered setup and if you're not a bashing person then you might as well not PK - notice how I no longer PK any more? Yeah, that's why. I'll PK on my bashing characters though.

[Tyson]

Also, stab is fine. Don't change stab. Just because you don't like the mechanic because it requires you to pay attention, doesn't mean it needs to be changed. Its just about impossible for me to stab alert people on my stabber and they usually just bash me dead or even break my defense without being bashed. What needs to change is bash.

I'm sorry, I'm still getting over the fact that Fogel actually just said bash was the only way he wanted people to die.

[Pitch]

Well thought out post Tyson although I would of used a few more curse words and character attacked multiple imms rather than just Fogel.

I don't understand why you don't get your way more often, we all know temper tantrums are the mature way to deal with a situation.

[Kyrana]

he pitch, i agree channies should be glass cannons, but i don't think weave dmg should be increased. if they were we would burn people down so quick it would be changed back anyway, and the dmg output now makes us work a little for the kill. if anything dmg should be downed a little more if dodge is to be upped a tiny bit. with the kind of dmg output we have it wouldn't be 'balanced' for a melee vs melee to take 20 mins (skilled melee vs skilled melee) and then have some channie roll in weave quick sand the immolate then fireball then create fire and get a kill that it's been taking the othe rmelee 20 minutes to do.

Perhaps i just rambled on about shit that allready happens and that will prolly still happen lol.

anyway, i like where channies are at atm. i think they are balanced against the other classes the best they can be without making one of the classes burst out infront.

[Tyson]

I actually feel the problem previously (before weave changes, bash changes, dodge changes) was that sp regen was too high. But you know, go ahead and disregard good advice. Also, if its not Fogel's fault then who's is it? All the changes were made by Fogel. All the dumb and totally fucking idiotic rationale/statements were made by Fogel. Everyone has agreed throughout all of the changes that bash is far too overpowered and yet, Fogel still ups it. Then Fogel goes and says stupid shit like what he just said.

[Tyson]

Hey any bets on what gets upped next? My money is on another increase to bash.