Ok, been back not very long and rusty as anything. Loving the new trades and the new skills.
I probably should't make any suggestions until and unless I get decent in pk again, but I'm not that bright so...
My suggestion is simply to give the thief the same prac advantages that rangers have, i.e 2 pracs at warrior. or perhaps even a practice advantage - such as 1 prac at thief and ranger and 2 at warrior.
With lots of channies running around with great damage ability whilst engaged plus stab also, and rangers and warriors being very decent now plus having more usefull autotrack it would be nice if thieves could pick up some of the new skills and be more unpredictable.
This could allow thieves some scope to have high search and pick as well as picking up some of the new skills to compliment their playstyle. With all the new skills that are available it could be very interesting.
Possibly a really stupid suggestion
Re: Possibly a really stupid suggestion
I'm going to pretend you didn't just suggest that....Defish wrote:Ok, been back not very long and rusty as anything. Loving the new trades and the new skills.
I probably should't make any suggestions until and unless I get decent in pk again, but I'm not that bright so...
My suggestion is simply to give the thief the same prac advantages that rangers have, i.e 2 pracs at warrior. or perhaps even a practice advantage - such as 1 prac at thief and ranger and 2 at warrior.
With lots of channies running around with great damage ability whilst engaged plus stab also, and rangers and warriors being very decent now plus having more usefull autotrack it would be nice if thieves could pick up some of the new skills and be more unpredictable.
This could allow thieves some scope to have high search and pick as well as picking up some of the new skills to compliment their playstyle. With all the new skills that are available it could be very interesting.
Re: Possibly a really stupid suggestion
You didn't log in for very long 
Re: Possibly a really stupid suggestion
Thieves have been underpowered since 2008ish, and then they started moving up thanks to george fogel jefferson
WEEZEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WEEZEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Possibly a really stupid suggestion
thieves have stab - 1 hit KO
Thieves have increased chance with precise strike.
they also have access to kick
shortblade ob is the highest in the game.
Thieves can get 20 dex (140db+ in full kit) 19 strength (high OB) 19 con (420 hps)
Channelers have weaves that are interupted if hit.
Channelers have access to Kick/Precise Strike.
Channelers can only get 17 dex (130db in a full kit) 16 Str low OB and 16 con (lucky to get 300hps)
..........
It's the same concept for each class, they are all OP in their own way, IF you know how to use them. An experienced channie going up against a new thief will obliterate them. An experierenced thief (example:nicotine, asylum or phantasm) going up against a new channie would obliterate them. The same thing would happen if a good warrior was against a new channie, they would kill them and like wise for hunters against rogues etc etc etc etc. it goes on and on and on.
If two experienced sides were against each other it comes down to their tactics and skill in their class, knowledge of the zones/mob locations and wether or not they know their characters limits.
Basically, the thief class does not need more skills at their disposal.
Thieves have increased chance with precise strike.
they also have access to kick
shortblade ob is the highest in the game.
Thieves can get 20 dex (140db+ in full kit) 19 strength (high OB) 19 con (420 hps)
Channelers have weaves that are interupted if hit.
Channelers have access to Kick/Precise Strike.
Channelers can only get 17 dex (130db in a full kit) 16 Str low OB and 16 con (lucky to get 300hps)
..........
It's the same concept for each class, they are all OP in their own way, IF you know how to use them. An experienced channie going up against a new thief will obliterate them. An experierenced thief (example:nicotine, asylum or phantasm) going up against a new channie would obliterate them. The same thing would happen if a good warrior was against a new channie, they would kill them and like wise for hunters against rogues etc etc etc etc. it goes on and on and on.
If two experienced sides were against each other it comes down to their tactics and skill in their class, knowledge of the zones/mob locations and wether or not they know their characters limits.
Basically, the thief class does not need more skills at their disposal.
Re: Possibly a really stupid suggestion
If this happened people would just stat thieves instead of rangers since they seem to have a high chance at getting great stats. 20 dex? Yea...
Re: Possibly a really stupid suggestion
Long winded and boring response:
Well on the 1 hit KO - everyone except warriors can go stab if they want.
On OB - don't Longblades have the highest OB?
On stats - well yes channies get less dex and str. But then str and dex are about melee - and a channie has a. less chance of being bashed than a thief because of chill and weaken and b. can pour out weave damage in melee.
Didn't really want to get into mechanics because a. it might seem moany when really I don't care too much and b. I admit i'm still rusty as hell so might be getting things wrong. So please correct me:
On choosing to stat a rangers vs thief if thief pracced warrior at 2 - well yes it would come down to stats plus autotrack vs autoscan. Autotrack outside is a pretty powerfull ability on it's own. Might be an actual tradeoff involved.
On the new vs old. I completely disagree. Firstly there aren't a look of characters that come here without experience. Some might be rusty like me and die to stupidity but that doesn't reflect skillsets. Even a new chaneller (or warrior or ranger with decent bash kit) vs a very experienced and good thief with bonuses is going to have trouble losing because the odds are stacked in their favour. I haven't seen an unbonused thief though since I have been back.
Prec strike vs a channie - I can run immolate and not worry about getting hit by it.
Kick - it hits and yeah sometimes melee interupts weaves also. But I am still going to be outdamaging a kicing thief 10 to 1 in melee.
Bows and projectiles - well bows seem much more usefull than either kick or prec strike for a thief.
In fact look at the number of unbonused thieves in pk. I may have only been back two weeks but I haven't seen one. I have seen plenty of stabbing channies though. This is the crux of the issue really. Why on earth stat a thief when you can stat a channie instead. They are just better. Also you can change things around so people won't know if you stab or not and might get careless. You see a thief online you know he is going to stab so you don't get careless.
But really it's not about how viable a thief is in melee - as they aren't supposed to be. It's isn't even that they are one trick ponies whereas channies can stab and they can also destroy in melle and the autotrack in cities and autoscan don't make up for this. It's about how it would be nice to fight a thief. It's just wondering why not have thieves has more utility and flexability when channies and rangers have tons.
TL;DR:
With all the skills that can be chosen from, including bows, projectiles, prec strike, crit hit, barrage plus the utility skills that could be really usefull to thieves such as search and pick lock it would be nice and I don't think overpowered if thieves could pick up a selection and stop being such one trick stab run 20 zone ponies - if the worry was about bash you could give thieves a bash malus . Tho I'd still rather use a bashing ranger and have autotrack outside.
Well on the 1 hit KO - everyone except warriors can go stab if they want.
On OB - don't Longblades have the highest OB?
On stats - well yes channies get less dex and str. But then str and dex are about melee - and a channie has a. less chance of being bashed than a thief because of chill and weaken and b. can pour out weave damage in melee.
Didn't really want to get into mechanics because a. it might seem moany when really I don't care too much and b. I admit i'm still rusty as hell so might be getting things wrong. So please correct me:
On choosing to stat a rangers vs thief if thief pracced warrior at 2 - well yes it would come down to stats plus autotrack vs autoscan. Autotrack outside is a pretty powerfull ability on it's own. Might be an actual tradeoff involved.
On the new vs old. I completely disagree. Firstly there aren't a look of characters that come here without experience. Some might be rusty like me and die to stupidity but that doesn't reflect skillsets. Even a new chaneller (or warrior or ranger with decent bash kit) vs a very experienced and good thief with bonuses is going to have trouble losing because the odds are stacked in their favour. I haven't seen an unbonused thief though since I have been back.
Prec strike vs a channie - I can run immolate and not worry about getting hit by it.
Kick - it hits and yeah sometimes melee interupts weaves also. But I am still going to be outdamaging a kicing thief 10 to 1 in melee.
Bows and projectiles - well bows seem much more usefull than either kick or prec strike for a thief.
In fact look at the number of unbonused thieves in pk. I may have only been back two weeks but I haven't seen one. I have seen plenty of stabbing channies though. This is the crux of the issue really. Why on earth stat a thief when you can stat a channie instead. They are just better. Also you can change things around so people won't know if you stab or not and might get careless. You see a thief online you know he is going to stab so you don't get careless.
But really it's not about how viable a thief is in melee - as they aren't supposed to be. It's isn't even that they are one trick ponies whereas channies can stab and they can also destroy in melle and the autotrack in cities and autoscan don't make up for this. It's about how it would be nice to fight a thief. It's just wondering why not have thieves has more utility and flexability when channies and rangers have tons.
TL;DR:
With all the skills that can be chosen from, including bows, projectiles, prec strike, crit hit, barrage plus the utility skills that could be really usefull to thieves such as search and pick lock it would be nice and I don't think overpowered if thieves could pick up a selection and stop being such one trick stab run 20 zone ponies - if the worry was about bash you could give thieves a bash malus . Tho I'd still rather use a bashing ranger and have autotrack outside.
Re: Possibly a really stupid suggestion
Here's a better idea:
Make sneak actually cause a move malus on the other classes and increase the % of hide required for effectiveness. That would make it a bit harder for the other classes to stab.
Make sneak actually cause a move malus on the other classes and increase the % of hide required for effectiveness. That would make it a bit harder for the other classes to stab.
Re: Possibly a really stupid suggestion
I like that idea.Crunch wrote:Here's a better idea:
Make sneak actually cause a move malus on the other classes and increase the % of hide required for effectiveness. That would make it a bit harder for the other classes to stab.
For the rest of the stuff, Defish it seems like you are saying how thieves have to run vs bashers, channelers, etc. Go on? They get a one-hit ability. If you wanted to have fights where you buff people then make a ranger or warrior. Or if you want to make someone to dish out damage go channeler.
Re: Possibly a really stupid suggestion
I like that idea also, though it would hurt my trolloc warrior it does make the most sense.
RE: Chase. I was waffling a bit but really just saying where is the thief's role now. They used to be tricky to fight, but with bashing being very decent land rate and damage (which I like actually), and channies always being a weakness of thieves, and fleelag being the way it is - if you want to want a new char good damage you go ranger/war or channie if you want to buff go ranger/war or channie. If you want a one hit kill you go channie. If you want to build up fleelag go thief.
RE: Chase. I was waffling a bit but really just saying where is the thief's role now. They used to be tricky to fight, but with bashing being very decent land rate and damage (which I like actually), and channies always being a weakness of thieves, and fleelag being the way it is - if you want to want a new char good damage you go ranger/war or channie if you want to buff go ranger/war or channie. If you want a one hit kill you go channie. If you want to build up fleelag go thief.
Re: Possibly a really stupid suggestion
i want it all
i want it all
i want it all
and i want it now
i want it all
i want it all
and i want it now
Re: Possibly a really stupid suggestion
^ THIS!Crunch wrote:Here's a better idea:
Make sneak actually cause a move malus on the other classes and increase the % of hide required for effectiveness. That would make it a bit harder for the other classes to stab.
i agree this would be the perfect way to go.
Re: Possibly a really stupid suggestion
Actually channies have a stab malus, they can't blick anything and pracs are so tight they will mostly brick, as for the idea to changing sneak and hide I'd say try one or the other and take it from there.Defish wrote:If you want a one hit kill you go channie. If you want to build up fleelag go thief.
Re: Possibly a really stupid suggestion
I think you (Defish) overstate the case and are slightly whinny.
I like the sneak idea. I also like more pracs but that is probably due to my stats. Less fleelag for thieves wouldn't be too shabby but that might make thieves too overpowered.
I like the sneak idea. I also like more pracs but that is probably due to my stats. Less fleelag for thieves wouldn't be too shabby but that might make thieves too overpowered.