We could look into lowering the bash malus put on channelers.
It's huge !
Using str, cripple and chill, I land less than 1/3 of bashes on the worms !! on 16 str channie (ds alt).
Just a suggestion ! I was still managing a cool set up when I landed a bash : with timing we can do a bash, call lightning, frag, ice shards.
but this is Still less efficient than a dodge channeler with 12 str using quicksand, immolate, flame strike, create fire :p :/ and it takes more skill than dodge channeler playing... It is normal it should be more deadly ! Also, abs channelers are easier to kill !!
Channie Bash malus
Re: Channie Bash malus
prolly not gona happen bro, they downed channies cause they were too overpowereed, they not gonna change it back rofl
Re: Channie Bash malus
Plus bash is pretty overpowered in itself.
Re: Channie Bash malus
Come up with a way to do it that doesn't make them autowin against abs and I'll consider it.
Re: Channie Bash malus
Or dont consider it at all.
Channies are OP as it is and do not need to have bash malus removed at all.
There's a reason the malus was implemented.
Channies are OP as it is and do not need to have bash malus removed at all.
There's a reason the malus was implemented.
Re: Channie Bash malus
Most non channelers are often stab. Stab can't do much against dodge channelers melee wise, they can only hope for a stab. Bash owns dodge channelers using patties. 1 Bash for crit, or close enough, then a zerk melee to rip.
Warriors have zerk and 19 to 21 str. Channelers have, after weaving str weave, 17 str.
Not only do warriors or hunter have more life and str, they also have bash. A dodge channeler can use 'quicksand' but he risks being bashed at a patty. Your concern is an abs channeler can play like a warrior who has less hp at patties, and then weave on top of it. Except when a channeler is hit, his weave is interrupted, which will frequently be the case in abs, so he HAS to bash. Dodge, sblades has attack, so will frequently interrupt in melee.
Now lets look at warrior against abs channeler if they both had 50% landing rate.
Situation : Warrior and channeler bash fight. Warrior bashes, Channeler gets low wound, Channeler flees, comes in and runs a bash, lands, weaves immolate, frags or flees and risks a bash. Warrior missed a bash, channeler lands a bash, weaves immolate, frags, starts short weave. Warrior bashes. Warrior starts a bash and channeler starts an immolate.
If Warrior bashes, Channeler will be crit and Warrior just needs to melee and chase the flee-lagged channeler.. Channeler rips
If zerk Warrior misses, due to cripple ? Channeler lands an immolate, and frags then starts weaving short weaves while meleeing with a heavy weapon.. Warrior rips
That is just a thought out simulation, I don't know how precise it it. i'm still thinking on this, but as it stands, Abs channeler is pointless. Abs Channeler bash is 17 str and 1/3 bashes after all status weaves at best... Brave warrior is about 50 % and Zerk warrior is 75 %ish ??
If you see some solution, post it please.
Warriors have zerk and 19 to 21 str. Channelers have, after weaving str weave, 17 str.
Not only do warriors or hunter have more life and str, they also have bash. A dodge channeler can use 'quicksand' but he risks being bashed at a patty. Your concern is an abs channeler can play like a warrior who has less hp at patties, and then weave on top of it. Except when a channeler is hit, his weave is interrupted, which will frequently be the case in abs, so he HAS to bash. Dodge, sblades has attack, so will frequently interrupt in melee.
Now lets look at warrior against abs channeler if they both had 50% landing rate.
Situation : Warrior and channeler bash fight. Warrior bashes, Channeler gets low wound, Channeler flees, comes in and runs a bash, lands, weaves immolate, frags or flees and risks a bash. Warrior missed a bash, channeler lands a bash, weaves immolate, frags, starts short weave. Warrior bashes. Warrior starts a bash and channeler starts an immolate.
If Warrior bashes, Channeler will be crit and Warrior just needs to melee and chase the flee-lagged channeler.. Channeler rips
If zerk Warrior misses, due to cripple ? Channeler lands an immolate, and frags then starts weaving short weaves while meleeing with a heavy weapon.. Warrior rips
That is just a thought out simulation, I don't know how precise it it. i'm still thinking on this, but as it stands, Abs channeler is pointless. Abs Channeler bash is 17 str and 1/3 bashes after all status weaves at best... Brave warrior is about 50 % and Zerk warrior is 75 %ish ??
If you see some solution, post it please.
Re: Channie Bash malus
The problem with Abs channelers wielding a heavy weapon vs warriors is the melee weave combo.
A possible solution is to lower the damage on create fire and raise damage on flame strike a tiny bit. As flame strike is harder to time when mobs are aggroing you. The it will just be to the warrior to choose the fighting ground, or else take a risk in the ennemy's city.
A possible solution is to lower the damage on create fire and raise damage on flame strike a tiny bit. As flame strike is harder to time when mobs are aggroing you. The it will just be to the warrior to choose the fighting ground, or else take a risk in the ennemy's city.
Re: Channie Bash malus
Or, instead of getting into all that weave modification BS, just leave it as it is. Channies do not need to be able to bash well. Period. You obviously weren't around for bash channies and they were the sickest thing around.
If you're a channie, you shouldn't rely on bash. End of story.
If you're a channie, you shouldn't rely on bash. End of story.
Re: Channie Bash malus
Yeah, I am not going to lie. I was playing full dodge with either estoc or pulwars and bashing pretty much just as well as a warrior/hunter. It was like having all the best parts of his class + weaves. I can whack on sanctuary to reduce the damage anyway so my hps aren't such a big deal. When I had that 1h heron it was just siiick. Then they put in that gay malus and it just wasn't even viable even with the heron.
Re: Channie Bash malus
My problem though is that there really isn't any diversity in the class now and bash for other classes has really been upped continuously over the year to the point where its the best setup to be. I think a while ago some imm tried to say bash was never upped but downed and I laughed at him and quoted all the changes in the past few years to bash and they were all increasing something.
Re: Channie Bash malus
I'd be willing to bring it back, but it needs to be in such a way that it won't be game breaking. Maybe we can get away with decreasing the hard-coded channeler landing rate modifier and see if it's better.
Re: Channie Bash malus
Instead of all the here's a suggestin, make an abs kit with wvd built in. that would balance out the bash/weave damage (just a thought).
Re: Channie Bash malus
or a semi-hard to get item with wvd...like artifact/idol, cept harder to obtain...not rare, just harder then say snake king.
Colby is standing here
colby glows with a bright white aura
<held> A glowing disc with they ancient aes sedai symbol engraved.
prolly make it outta heartstone
Colby is standing here
colby glows with a bright white aura
<held> A glowing disc with they ancient aes sedai symbol engraved.
prolly make it outta heartstone
Re: Channie Bash malus
mebbe incororate a low % to slice a weave on die roll also
Re: Channie Bash malus
could also make an item with say like 5 uses of fireball to balance out the channie weaving
Re: Channie Bash malus
So I think many things have been scaled based on clan bonuses/ranks...
When I play Tyson I get choked/shielded all the time which pretty much renders me useless - in which case being able to bash wouldn't be so bad. I have absolutely no bonuses on Tyson and in any clan I would have at least a rank 6 bonus. Its pretty well impossible to fight more than 1 person and expect to have a fighting chance even at a patty.
I know when I play my rank 1 ko'bal rogue is equally as difficult because he has no bonuses and it seems a lot of balance related issues are hinged on people having bonuses. If I could bash on Tyson, I wouldn't play stab, the only reason I play stab is its the only skill that I can use without relying on weaves that is even remotely effective/worthwhile and most of the time I only finish 1 timer in any given PK and half the time it bricks.
So I don't think adding an "item" is going to be the solution, especially as its always going to end up on the already bonused characters.
When I play Tyson I get choked/shielded all the time which pretty much renders me useless - in which case being able to bash wouldn't be so bad. I have absolutely no bonuses on Tyson and in any clan I would have at least a rank 6 bonus. Its pretty well impossible to fight more than 1 person and expect to have a fighting chance even at a patty.
I know when I play my rank 1 ko'bal rogue is equally as difficult because he has no bonuses and it seems a lot of balance related issues are hinged on people having bonuses. If I could bash on Tyson, I wouldn't play stab, the only reason I play stab is its the only skill that I can use without relying on weaves that is even remotely effective/worthwhile and most of the time I only finish 1 timer in any given PK and half the time it bricks.
So I don't think adding an "item" is going to be the solution, especially as its always going to end up on the already bonused characters.
Re: Channie Bash malus
Channeler is already ridiculously easy. It's not even fun to play with most of the time.. now you really want to add bash again? Channelers shouldn't be able to bash effectively - they already have a great damage output.
Re: Channie Bash malus
Besides, a channeler's real strength lies in being in a group. A group of 2 channelers are much stronger than say, a group of two bashers. Now you want to be the ultimate 1 v 1 and 1+ v 1+. Can't have both!
Re: Channie Bash malus
I think the record highs for each day usually sit around 3 people on at any given time. I'll be the first to admit that bash on channelers was overpowerd but as it currently is in a 1vs1 fight against anyone other than a channeler, channelers pretty much stand little to no chance.
Re: Channie Bash malus
Workin' on it.Tyson wrote:I think the record highs for each day usually sit around 3 people on at any given time....
Re: Channie Bash malus
This whole discussion is flawed. You just stated that there is no setup viable for your channie that will allow you not to rely on weaves............
fucking stupid.
YOU ARE A CHANNELER. WEAVING IS YOUR WEAPON DUMBASS. You don't need any other shit.
I decimated anything and everything on my channie and all I used was the gold staff.
Learn to play it correctly and stop whining about your ineptitude at using your massively overpowered character.
fucking stupid.
YOU ARE A CHANNELER. WEAVING IS YOUR WEAPON DUMBASS. You don't need any other shit.
I decimated anything and everything on my channie and all I used was the gold staff.
Learn to play it correctly and stop whining about your ineptitude at using your massively overpowered character.
Re: Channie Bash malus
One of the first things channelers should learn is not to rely on their weaves.
Weaves are an awsome output of damage, when you land them. But a newbie channie who solely relies on his weaves is missing a large part of his capacities.
Someone resting. You hit him instead of weaving, even with a gold staff, you're doing more damage than a short weave. I.E. 25 hp.
Someone standing in abs, you'll barely tickle him with a gold staff, but wielding a heavy weapon you can frag.
That and the ability to fight at patties longer would be the main reason to go abs heavy weapon on a channeler. The downside to going abs is most of our weaves are easier to interrupt and we are supposed to be way easier to bash.
This is where we need bash instead of Quicksand, so we can actually get off immolates in abs some of the times, and not use only create fire or flame strike (or equivalents).
An abs basher should not be able to bash a dodger unless he's woven str, cripple and chill already. But after the status weaves, he should be able to land with similar landing success as a brave warrior/hunter.
Warriors get zerk here. I don't know what rangers get here, since 1 prac track does the trick, Channies get weave targetting. Any class nakked with a weapon, using mobs and stuff can do a lot of dammage. Channies have the advantage of being able to target with different weave timers and damage and creativity. Also, their weaves eat through abs and defence. Rogues get stab. That is a different game.
You realise, in abs vs an abs, we cannot win just using flame strike/create fire unless the abser is brave (not zerk) and he gets scared and runs ? We would run out of sp well before the abser got low enough to finish him. Not to mention we get bashed and die.
Fogel, we need a solution ? Put a big malus on heavy, bashing weapons to dodge bonus. That way, a channeler wielding a bashing weapon gets a super reduction on his dodge and he needs to be able to wield the bash weapon effectively.
Chase, Nyoga. I rambled for your sake, there was a problem before the bash malus on channelers, now there's a problem with the current bash malus on channelers. Instead of arguing against bash on channelers altogether, help us find a balance please. ANd try not to be biased in your arguments against it.
Weaves are an awsome output of damage, when you land them. But a newbie channie who solely relies on his weaves is missing a large part of his capacities.
Someone resting. You hit him instead of weaving, even with a gold staff, you're doing more damage than a short weave. I.E. 25 hp.
Someone standing in abs, you'll barely tickle him with a gold staff, but wielding a heavy weapon you can frag.
That and the ability to fight at patties longer would be the main reason to go abs heavy weapon on a channeler. The downside to going abs is most of our weaves are easier to interrupt and we are supposed to be way easier to bash.
This is where we need bash instead of Quicksand, so we can actually get off immolates in abs some of the times, and not use only create fire or flame strike (or equivalents).
An abs basher should not be able to bash a dodger unless he's woven str, cripple and chill already. But after the status weaves, he should be able to land with similar landing success as a brave warrior/hunter.
Warriors get zerk here. I don't know what rangers get here, since 1 prac track does the trick, Channies get weave targetting. Any class nakked with a weapon, using mobs and stuff can do a lot of dammage. Channies have the advantage of being able to target with different weave timers and damage and creativity. Also, their weaves eat through abs and defence. Rogues get stab. That is a different game.
You realise, in abs vs an abs, we cannot win just using flame strike/create fire unless the abser is brave (not zerk) and he gets scared and runs ? We would run out of sp well before the abser got low enough to finish him. Not to mention we get bashed and die.
Fogel, we need a solution ? Put a big malus on heavy, bashing weapons to dodge bonus. That way, a channeler wielding a bashing weapon gets a super reduction on his dodge and he needs to be able to wield the bash weapon effectively.
Chase, Nyoga. I rambled for your sake, there was a problem before the bash malus on channelers, now there's a problem with the current bash malus on channelers. Instead of arguing against bash on channelers altogether, help us find a balance please. ANd try not to be biased in your arguments against it.
Re: Channie Bash malus
I think you need to talk only about bash when giving your arguments. Throwing abs in there as a defense for channelers having bash is like trying to up stab because a rogue in abs will get his stab timer interrupted. If this thread is about bashing channelers, then just argue that point.
Re: Channie Bash malus
*blush* sorry. Honestly, Bash on Dodge shouldn't work. I talked about abs because I thought the two were linked.
Re: Channie Bash malus
Anyone who says a channie shouldn't rely on weaves is retarded.
That is your primary offensive weapon and you do not need shit else. I have never once used bash on a channie here, and I have been successfull on all of them.
Your argument is invalid. Anyone who knows how to actually USE a channie is extremely effective. If you can't win at all or lose more than you win then that just means you suck horribly and need to get better.
This is quite possibly one of the stupidest discussions brought up here.
But then, it was brought up by the stupidest player here so I guess that's to be expected.
That is your primary offensive weapon and you do not need shit else. I have never once used bash on a channie here, and I have been successfull on all of them.
Your argument is invalid. Anyone who knows how to actually USE a channie is extremely effective. If you can't win at all or lose more than you win then that just means you suck horribly and need to get better.
This is quite possibly one of the stupidest discussions brought up here.
But then, it was brought up by the stupidest player here so I guess that's to be expected.