So i port fal dara, move one room away anddddd
P:Healthy SP:Good MV:Excellent - Barf: Scratched>
= *Barf* panics, and attempts to flee!
HP:Healthy SP:Good MV:Excellent - Barf: Scratched>
=
* + q
Cancelled...
You do the best you can!
HP:Healthy SP:Good MV:Excellent - Barf: Scratched>
q
You do the best you can!
HP:Healthy SP:Good MV:Excellent - Barf: Scratched>
q
You do the best you can!
HP:Healthy SP:Good MV:Excellent - Barf: Scratched>
q
You do the best you can!
HP:Healthy SP:Good MV:Excellent - Barf: Scratched>
q
*Barf* leaves west.
Suddenly *Nyoga* stabs you in the back, R.I.P....
You wish that your wounds would stop BLEEDING so much!
Your fame has been diminished.
You are dead! Sorry...
Crossroads of Fate
Existing just outside of the border of the Pattern, the Crossroads of Fate lead
into the World of the Wheel of Time, governing where all people take their
first steps into the world, and the fates that lie ahead for them. To receive
a kit, simply type kit.
[ Exits: n e s w u d ]
A smooth stone fountain with an elaborate design is here.
The Guardian of Life stands here, ever vigilant.
No lag or anything, i guess nice timing but really, realllly boring..Back to sitting in tower reading instead of even bothering.
Wow fun..
Re: Wow fun..
n our defense - we didn't know you were there. I saw you on autoscan. We were also fighting 2 other channelers in that zone and the zone n of FD.
I also had 60 hps when i stabbed you, and was low mvs. We were chasing mesana, raspen kept interfering, then we ran into you. I think barf got lucky on that flee, not sure if he was 100% sure i was rolling or not. If he WAS sure, awesome timing.
Although i'm not sure why I have to say 'in our defense.' It was pretty legit.
I also had 60 hps when i stabbed you, and was low mvs. We were chasing mesana, raspen kept interfering, then we ran into you. I think barf got lucky on that flee, not sure if he was 100% sure i was rolling or not. If he WAS sure, awesome timing.
Although i'm not sure why I have to say 'in our defense.' It was pretty legit.
Re: Wow fun..
i said nice timing, i just said boring and im not bothering and left. No point in pking if im gonna get instastabbed dead with no way to stop it =P Ill sit in the tower and read stuff online
Re: Wow fun..
yeah, I wasn't sure you were rolling but thought it was worth a try. And yeah, a third channie would have pretty much won that fight w/o question 
Re: Wow fun..
exactly same thing happend to me 10minutes before this.. barf flees, and nyoga lands a doublelined stab and blicks me.. sure I wasent healthy but that doesent mean much, cous it seems by some odd reason, Im not sure why but for some reason: emerald hilted hunting knife, ruby knife, baselard, lion etched, obsidian dagger, opallicent all has the same stats, or unbelivably close.. all of the above blicks people.
Im kinda new here so you might find it annoying that I come here to talk about balance, but let me throw in my opinion, Ive been PKing for muds for over 12 years.
Imo, there will always be stuff that kills you without counters, However IMO this stuff is what pisses people off. So what you wanna do is minimalize stuff that can kill you no matter what you do.. however this doesent mean you have to take away everything that is deadly so we have a mud of warrior srunning around barely tickeling other absers..
But obvious things such as stab blicking people at 70%, Time stab will always happend, on Wotmud they removed the ability to roll on engaged people which lowered the chance timestab would happend greatly, howeverr it still happends, But IMO if you are healthy and playing a decent con char, you shouldent have this big risk of dying instantly.
Im not very familular with all the skills rogues have here, but It seems to me that they have quite a bit of other stuff except stab, so they can fight without it?
Either way, you cant balnace the stab dmg on how its the only thing a rogue can do vs a channie etc.. there are TONS of tactics how to land a stab on someone that knows your around. If you watch other classes fights, like a warrior vs a channie, unless the warrior is unbelivably good eqed hes gonna loose, a dodger vs a warrior and the dodger is bound to loose unless hes using a unique.. My point is, PK here will always result in using mobs if your starting to loose, there are so many masters/unique's and rares around a random non master human ranger is bound to seek help vs mobs while fighting someone.
To summerize it:
Stab damage needs downing, the stats on the daggers need to reflect more on the stab dmg, some having consistent dmg, some having huge scale's, and some of the rarer daggers have huge dmg and blicks people more often then others..
You have alot of GREAT features here to attract newer players, like legends, weave points, achievments, kill streaks.. I do not understand the reason for all this, if there will be a big chance to die no matter what you do.
Im kinda new here so you might find it annoying that I come here to talk about balance, but let me throw in my opinion, Ive been PKing for muds for over 12 years.
Imo, there will always be stuff that kills you without counters, However IMO this stuff is what pisses people off. So what you wanna do is minimalize stuff that can kill you no matter what you do.. however this doesent mean you have to take away everything that is deadly so we have a mud of warrior srunning around barely tickeling other absers..
But obvious things such as stab blicking people at 70%, Time stab will always happend, on Wotmud they removed the ability to roll on engaged people which lowered the chance timestab would happend greatly, howeverr it still happends, But IMO if you are healthy and playing a decent con char, you shouldent have this big risk of dying instantly.
Im not very familular with all the skills rogues have here, but It seems to me that they have quite a bit of other stuff except stab, so they can fight without it?
Either way, you cant balnace the stab dmg on how its the only thing a rogue can do vs a channie etc.. there are TONS of tactics how to land a stab on someone that knows your around. If you watch other classes fights, like a warrior vs a channie, unless the warrior is unbelivably good eqed hes gonna loose, a dodger vs a warrior and the dodger is bound to loose unless hes using a unique.. My point is, PK here will always result in using mobs if your starting to loose, there are so many masters/unique's and rares around a random non master human ranger is bound to seek help vs mobs while fighting someone.
To summerize it:
Stab damage needs downing, the stats on the daggers need to reflect more on the stab dmg, some having consistent dmg, some having huge scale's, and some of the rarer daggers have huge dmg and blicks people more often then others..
You have alot of GREAT features here to attract newer players, like legends, weave points, achievments, kill streaks.. I do not understand the reason for all this, if there will be a big chance to die no matter what you do.
Re: Wow fun..
stab is pretty much fine because once dodgers are seen they can't do crap unless you let them. if stab damage was downed, channies would still always be blicked but all the other chars would be like stabbed beat cause we all have 400+ hps. Originally, not nearly as many people were playing channies though.
Re: Wow fun..
This is how it should be in my opinion.Barf wrote:stab is pretty much fine because once dodgers are seen they can't do crap unless you let them. if stab damage was downed, channies would still always be blicked but all the other chars would be like stabbed beat cause we all have 400+ hps. Originally, not nearly as many people were playing channies though.
Re: Wow fun..
Ciarra wrote:This is how it should be in my opinion.Barf wrote:stab is pretty much fine because once dodgers are seen they can't do crap unless you let them. if stab damage was downed, channies would still always be blicked but all the other chars would be like stabbed beat cause we all have 400+ hps. Originally, not nearly as many people were playing channies though.
+1
Re: Wow fun..
Ok so lets say we have a unbelivably skilled player, he/she has a killstreak of 57.. hes Legend one, wearing all the uniques and rare's in the game cous he deserved em etc.. this player is a really cool guy that everyone likes, IE: he dident get all these kills/eq by hugging aglemar and dooring people, straight up legit kills..
You think its ok that this person dies healhty->dead in a time stab, before even realizing who hes up against so hes got a chance to move the pk somewhere where he cant get time stabbed as easly, nfc where that would be since by some odd reason you can stab people without using hide here but but..
Either im missing a point or you are completely looking at things the wrong way.
Your reasoning seems to be like this:
Ok so were gonna make a mud, in the first version we have no extra combat skills, a fight is simply combat rounds is that we do melee dmg to eachother.
Wait, now dodgers own, since absers cant hit them, we need to implement bash, this sits down a dodger 100% no matter gear/weapon from the basher.
Wait, now absers own, we need to implement kick, this interrupts an absers bash timer 100%, no matter their gear/stats, and takes away a small portion of moves and health.
Wait, now dodgers own, we need to implement backstab/charge on 1h weapons, this will 1-shot and class in the game, just so that the dodger also have a chance to win vs the abser if the abser isent paying attention.
there... now the mud is balanced.. dodgers can win, and absers can win.
I might sound hostile, but im not.. I like discussions and I love for you convince me that im wrong :P I just dont understand it.
Im fully aware of that its not easy to balance stuff when theres multiple classes and every class has their own skills to practice.
If something is terribly unbalanced and you nerf it, if that leads something else to beeing overpowered obviously we need to look into that aswell.
The whole goal of balancing IMO is:
class1>class2
class2>class3
class3>class1
but ofcourse way more complexed since each class has various setups to practice and equip..
I just dont see a reason for 1 skill to have close to 100% chance to 1-shot any other class NO matter their preperations, (wvd, full health, super stats, super cautious, no hide rooms, etc etc.. (yes i know stabs without hide does less dmg but still).
You think its ok that this person dies healhty->dead in a time stab, before even realizing who hes up against so hes got a chance to move the pk somewhere where he cant get time stabbed as easly, nfc where that would be since by some odd reason you can stab people without using hide here but but..
Either im missing a point or you are completely looking at things the wrong way.
Your reasoning seems to be like this:
Ok so were gonna make a mud, in the first version we have no extra combat skills, a fight is simply combat rounds is that we do melee dmg to eachother.
Wait, now dodgers own, since absers cant hit them, we need to implement bash, this sits down a dodger 100% no matter gear/weapon from the basher.
Wait, now absers own, we need to implement kick, this interrupts an absers bash timer 100%, no matter their gear/stats, and takes away a small portion of moves and health.
Wait, now dodgers own, we need to implement backstab/charge on 1h weapons, this will 1-shot and class in the game, just so that the dodger also have a chance to win vs the abser if the abser isent paying attention.
there... now the mud is balanced.. dodgers can win, and absers can win.
I might sound hostile, but im not.. I like discussions and I love for you convince me that im wrong :P I just dont understand it.
Im fully aware of that its not easy to balance stuff when theres multiple classes and every class has their own skills to practice.
If something is terribly unbalanced and you nerf it, if that leads something else to beeing overpowered obviously we need to look into that aswell.
The whole goal of balancing IMO is:
class1>class2
class2>class3
class3>class1
but ofcourse way more complexed since each class has various setups to practice and equip..
I just dont see a reason for 1 skill to have close to 100% chance to 1-shot any other class NO matter their preperations, (wvd, full health, super stats, super cautious, no hide rooms, etc etc.. (yes i know stabs without hide does less dmg but still).
Re: Wow fun..
oh and, you said once the dodgy stabber gets seen he cant do anything.. he can do stuff like use help from mobs etc.. I mean both setups/classes cant win, 1 has to be in general the better one vs a certain setup, and less good vs another one.
This doesent mean just cous absers beat them, they ahve to beable to 1 shot them DOUBLELINED.
This doesent mean just cous absers beat them, they ahve to beable to 1 shot them DOUBLELINED.
Re: Wow fun..
less than 10, and you landed almost all bashes or wouldn't have been playing at patty/spy (getting a dodge kit so I can pk absers though)
Re: Wow fun..
Makes sense to me, maybe lowering stab damage by just a bit would help improve, but I find choke to be more annoying than backstab :PMesana wrote:I just dont see a reason for 1 skill to have close to 100% chance to 1-shot any other class NO matter their preperations, (wvd, full health, super stats, super cautious, no hide rooms, etc etc.. (yes i know stabs without hide does less dmg but still).
Re: Wow fun..
Backstab kills you, choke sends you running and only reason it would cripple you to die is cous you cant refresh your horse, yet there are refresh vials to use for that so no, I cant see how thats worse then getting killed without counters.
Re: Wow fun..
Rogues have been weakend to the point of horror. I have less ob on my master rogue than I do on my non master, 16 str channie with a staff. dagger dmg got tweaked also a while back.
Pstrike now only works with large abser weapons.
I'm not sure where you got this idea that rogues have 'lots of things besides stab', but it is quite simply not true. If you take away stab, then we are beyond useless.
I could agree with downing stab dmg SLIGHTLY, especially on lower end daggers, but no, not nearly as much as you are talking about.
Situational awareness, that's what it takes to beat stab.
Pstrike now only works with large abser weapons.
I'm not sure where you got this idea that rogues have 'lots of things besides stab', but it is quite simply not true. If you take away stab, then we are beyond useless.
I could agree with downing stab dmg SLIGHTLY, especially on lower end daggers, but no, not nearly as much as you are talking about.
Situational awareness, that's what it takes to beat stab.
Re: Wow fun..
I would say lower damage on daggers and raise ob and make kick have a significantly higher landing rate while lowering the landing rate on choke. Also giving precise strike a bonus modifier if used with shortblades. pstrike with shortblades could have an added effect of giving the target the 'cripple' effect on low %
Re: Wow fun..
Ciarra's idea sounds great, kick beeing a skill to use to interrupt weaves sounds great.. and lowering dmg etc..
Kathryn, the reason we are disagreeing with eachother is cous i think we have a different idea on what a rogue class should be, that and how big of a bonus it is to beable to blick someone that aint paying attention.
[quote]Situational awareness, that's what it takes to beat stab.[/quote]
thats not true:
I saw 2 trolls was on
gated up to fd
went to the inn and located players; Barf was NE fd.
went straight up to 1n, tracked trolloc and nothing there.
closed gate behind me and hid 1n spamming backstab, hoping for barf to arrive to check tracks while I stabbed him. nothing comes.. all of a sudden rasten narrates on 1n fork. i go there, hes fighting barf, i engage, barf flees and dline stabbed from nyoga blick dead.
How exactly would you recommend me to avoid that? There was absolutely nothing else I could do except leaving when I saw it was 2 trolls on and barf was one of em, meaning the other one COULD be a stabber who COULD roll stabs on me while i engage barf who then flees and i die.
I cant for the world understand how you are suggesting this is a good thing cous rogues are weakened to the point of horror.
I havent tested any of the cool skills you have here such as bows, choke, power strike, crit strike, so I cant debate in how worthless a rogue is when the person know its there.
All i know is that beeing able to blick someone sure has hell is gonna have its maluses in other fighting styles IE: MELEE and vs CHANNIES
why the hell would anyone play 1h bashy long blades or axes if rogues are as good in melee but can also blick stuff.
400dmg stabs AND the fact u can roll on engaged targets is wayyyy over the top if u ask me.
Kathryn, the reason we are disagreeing with eachother is cous i think we have a different idea on what a rogue class should be, that and how big of a bonus it is to beable to blick someone that aint paying attention.
[quote]Situational awareness, that's what it takes to beat stab.[/quote]
thats not true:
I saw 2 trolls was on
gated up to fd
went to the inn and located players; Barf was NE fd.
went straight up to 1n, tracked trolloc and nothing there.
closed gate behind me and hid 1n spamming backstab, hoping for barf to arrive to check tracks while I stabbed him. nothing comes.. all of a sudden rasten narrates on 1n fork. i go there, hes fighting barf, i engage, barf flees and dline stabbed from nyoga blick dead.
How exactly would you recommend me to avoid that? There was absolutely nothing else I could do except leaving when I saw it was 2 trolls on and barf was one of em, meaning the other one COULD be a stabber who COULD roll stabs on me while i engage barf who then flees and i die.
I cant for the world understand how you are suggesting this is a good thing cous rogues are weakened to the point of horror.
I havent tested any of the cool skills you have here such as bows, choke, power strike, crit strike, so I cant debate in how worthless a rogue is when the person know its there.
All i know is that beeing able to blick someone sure has hell is gonna have its maluses in other fighting styles IE: MELEE and vs CHANNIES
why the hell would anyone play 1h bashy long blades or axes if rogues are as good in melee but can also blick stuff.
400dmg stabs AND the fact u can roll on engaged targets is wayyyy over the top if u ask me.
Re: Wow fun..
actually you cant roll on targets engaged on another pc. Only on targets engaged on a mob or un engaged. Well i think thats how it is :P
Re: Wow fun..
you can roll on targets lower or higher then a certain hp i think.. atleast thats what i read in some log
Re: Wow fun..
It actually has to do with your NO QUIT. If you have above 2 ticks of NO QUIT left, you can't roll a stab on someone engaged on a player.
Re: Wow fun..
Im honestly fine with the death, I wasnt mad at all =p. It happens, when i played stabbers nonstop i had pulled it off a bunch as well. I just dont wanna even try if i know its coming (IE mesana had told me it had happened to her 10 ago but decided well i dont think they will do it to me atm because the other two pkers are beat and theres 3 of them online) but it happened so was like hrm im done for the night =p.
Now if I hadnt played rogues at all I would say they need to be looked at but to be honest stab is fine the way it is. That was a freak accident timestab (same for mesana but two in one day lucky lucky nyoga) so its not a big deal. If we down rogues to where they can still blick channies but not high hp humans they are basically 100% useless when a high hp human in a defense set eats a stab. If they land the stab they land the stab, for most cases there are plenty of countermeasures.
We simply got unlucky, dust off our shoulders try again later +p
Now if I hadnt played rogues at all I would say they need to be looked at but to be honest stab is fine the way it is. That was a freak accident timestab (same for mesana but two in one day lucky lucky nyoga) so its not a big deal. If we down rogues to where they can still blick channies but not high hp humans they are basically 100% useless when a high hp human in a defense set eats a stab. If they land the stab they land the stab, for most cases there are plenty of countermeasures.
We simply got unlucky, dust off our shoulders try again later +p
Re: Wow fun..
It's called Notice, mesana 
On this mud, you have to learn very quickly to keep notice on. It has gotten me many times in my earlier years and even now occasionally (damn you bollesedun) I forget to check my notice and all of a sudden get stabbed.
I have played 3 classes very prominently, and the other class I have played quite a bit as well. If you lower stab then... well you have a useless rogue.
Everything right now is pretty well balanced, the only thing that really needs to be looked into downing a little bit is channelers. Although they do have to deal with some maluses as well.
On this mud, you have to learn very quickly to keep notice on. It has gotten me many times in my earlier years and even now occasionally (damn you bollesedun) I forget to check my notice and all of a sudden get stabbed. I have played 3 classes very prominently, and the other class I have played quite a bit as well. If you lower stab then... well you have a useless rogue.
Everything right now is pretty well balanced, the only thing that really needs to be looked into downing a little bit is channelers. Although they do have to deal with some maluses as well.
-
Bollesedun
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:03 am
Re: Wow fun..
One thing I disagree with is no hide stabs. Being a stabber myself I think its cheap and lame. I think you should have a 0% chance to land if you are not hidden or should get a message like - You cant do that!
Re: Wow fun..
^^ ageed ^^
Maybe a malus on damage on stabs rolling on engaged people, but not normal stabs (wtf is the point of stabbing if you can't blick most of the time!)
Maybe a malus on damage on stabs rolling on engaged people, but not normal stabs (wtf is the point of stabbing if you can't blick most of the time!)
Re: Wow fun..
are you guys even reading this shit before answering? first situational awareness, and now notice.. your joking right Kathryn?
Notice doesent work if its doublelined, and we have been through this discussion on wotmud.. you cant balance an overpowered skill with saying well it happends very rarely.. if so Incinerate was fine on wotmud, cous noone used it.
Thats like saying, lets make a weave, it has 0.1% chance to land, but its insta cast, and does 100000 damage, sure doesent land that often, but when it does theres nothing u can do about it..
You guys know more about rogues here then I do, you say its useless.. thats exactly my point, GIVE THEM SOMETHING ELSE then, noone using critical strike or that precition strike thing? make it like a weave.. cost moves or something, and its basiccly a 2sec cast weave to finish shit off with.. i dunno..
But why on earth are you taking into account that the rogue is worthless if he cant blick people timestabbed.. it has nothing to do with the other.
Im saying you shouldent beable to be 1 shotted if you have done everything you can to prepare it, hell I even list it this time so undestand:
99% notice is on
21 con warrior
healthy 440 hps
sanctuary
spamming kill human constantly
You know theres a stabber around which is why your spamming
blick dead..
god this is getting frustrating, are we playing the same game heh? you cant for hte WORLD be serious about htis.
Notice doesent work if its doublelined, and we have been through this discussion on wotmud.. you cant balance an overpowered skill with saying well it happends very rarely.. if so Incinerate was fine on wotmud, cous noone used it.
Thats like saying, lets make a weave, it has 0.1% chance to land, but its insta cast, and does 100000 damage, sure doesent land that often, but when it does theres nothing u can do about it..
You guys know more about rogues here then I do, you say its useless.. thats exactly my point, GIVE THEM SOMETHING ELSE then, noone using critical strike or that precition strike thing? make it like a weave.. cost moves or something, and its basiccly a 2sec cast weave to finish shit off with.. i dunno..
But why on earth are you taking into account that the rogue is worthless if he cant blick people timestabbed.. it has nothing to do with the other.
Im saying you shouldent beable to be 1 shotted if you have done everything you can to prepare it, hell I even list it this time so undestand:
99% notice is on
21 con warrior
healthy 440 hps
sanctuary
spamming kill human constantly
You know theres a stabber around which is why your spamming
blick dead..
god this is getting frustrating, are we playing the same game heh? you cant for hte WORLD be serious about htis.
Re: Wow fun..
/sarcasm "mesana is right stab sucks you should never be able to land a stab and kill someone. thief's have a ton of other skills that are better. lets make stab land on like a 15% rate, then also lower the damage to about 80 or so hp. so that way no one ever has to worry about getting blicked again. well unless you are beat, but surely we can code it to where you cant roll a stab timer on someone lower then 81 hp." end sarcastic rant.
you should really play a rogue some and you will see that it isn't all blicks and easy kills. Do flee stabs happen? yeah they do. are they easy to do? oddly enough its not it is all luck and timing. what happens more often then not is channies eat us up. comboers eat us up, absers we actually stand a fair chance. (and i am talking 1vs1 for all those) once we are spotted we dont have much of a chance to get kills unless you just arent paying attention.
I really want you to play a rogue for awhile then get back with everyone and tell us how they need to be changed. give that a shot before you come here from wothell and tell us how we need to be more like them.
you should really play a rogue some and you will see that it isn't all blicks and easy kills. Do flee stabs happen? yeah they do. are they easy to do? oddly enough its not it is all luck and timing. what happens more often then not is channies eat us up. comboers eat us up, absers we actually stand a fair chance. (and i am talking 1vs1 for all those) once we are spotted we dont have much of a chance to get kills unless you just arent paying attention.
I really want you to play a rogue for awhile then get back with everyone and tell us how they need to be changed. give that a shot before you come here from wothell and tell us how we need to be more like them.