Pk-related suggestions for gatekeep

[Harry]

I've noticed that many trollocs complain that they fight in Fal Dara while not many humans fight in gatekeep, and I think the obvious answer to why this is the case is that Fal Dara is much more pk friendly than is gatekeep. Fal Dara has a no mob 2 south of the northern gate, allowing for trollocs to fight there, if they flee north or west they can exit out of either of those gates and escape the city. If they escape to the west they can run to the patty, or they can make the relatively short trip around to the north of Fal Dara. This allows for a situation where trolls are capable of fighting inside Fal Dara without huge advantages in numbers and are still able to get kills, or survive.

However, gatekeep isn't quite as friendly. The southern gate is the viable exit, seeing how if you escape out of woodengate to the north, you've got a long ways to run to get back to south of gatekeep. There isn't lightside support northeast of gatekep, so it's not a good comparison to the Fal Dara situation. If you have your horse, you might be able to survive, but it's still not really that likely, while if you don't have a horse, you are simply fucked. Now, there is a jump exit in gatekeep, but this makes it where you have to pk inside without a horse, or ditch your horse to use the jump exit. This makes hitting gatekeep for a human more dangerous than for trollocs hitting Fal Dara, which results in humans mostly going there when they've got a decent advantage in numbers, and even then it's hard to kill trollocs in gatekeep.

I'd like to suggest a few small changes to make gatekeep more pk friendly, which would hopefully encourage humans hitting inside of gatekeep which of course would result in more pking. The first suggestion would be to make the room 1s of the dread lord a no mob room, similar to the situation in Fal Dara. The second suggestion would be to remove the woodengate in the north, and put an eastern gate all east of the new no mob room. The third suggestion would be to remove the jump exit, since there is no need for it being in place.

This would give gatekeep a more pk friendly layout, and result in a more fair balance between the two main pk cities. Stronghold is still left for trollocs to run to if they don't want to be killed, it's a really large zone where it's difficult to finish someone off. But if trollocs feel that the gatekeep changes are unfair, stronghold can always been buffed up a bit to compensate.

[Chase]

Like.

[Otar]

I dig it.

[Kathryn]

You will have to seriously buff stronghold if you do these changes. Lets not forget the extremely close proximity (and non chokey zone access) from fd to fm, and how buff fm, and Easar, are.

ATM the road to Hold is nothing but a big long choke, WITH a lightside friendly smob only 7 rooms from the entrance (which has NO gate)

Keep this into consideration when you change our cities.

[Harry]

These changes make it easier for humans to get out, they don't make it easier for trollocs to die.

Also, the road from gk to stronghold has trees in many, many choke rooms, along with other mobs that aggro lightside. It's not as if humans can run up that road without getting hit by mobs several times.

[Kathryn]

I realize what the changes are for, and I don't disagree with them. I am however pointing out the obvious differences between the two areas. If you are going to make a comparison, then you have to consider the whole, not just the portion that you want to look at.

I'm not suggesting we shorten the dark road or anything, I'm just making observations. I fully realize the pro's and con's for each side in both situations.

[Harry]

I don't understand your original comment then, it sounded as if you were saying that trollocs would now die more easily, but I pointed out the change just lets humans get out of gatekeep more easily.

[Barf]

This sounds good

[Kathryn]

No, I wasn't saying that trollocs would die more easily at all. I think you misunderstood me.

My point is, that if it goes badly for pukes in fal dara, they can very very easily run to fal moran, even if dismounted and low moves. They can take their choice of three different directions to get there, and none of their zones are as chokey as the road to Hold. Some routes do have chokes, sure, but nothing compared to the road to Hold. Trollocs will not have that luxury should things go badly. Trollocs also do not have a pretty buff DS smob in close proximity to either city. Hold also has only one exit, and no gate.


Note: I'm not suggesting we implement another DS smob, or shorten dark road, or remove the chokes. I'm simply saying that all of this needs to be taken into consideration when making changes. I'm all for changes, I just want to make sure all factors are brought into consideration. I'd love to see more northern pk.

[Harry]

I'm still confused. How does humans getting out of gatekeep more easily if these changes go into effect change trolloc survivability? If anything, that east gate would make it easier for trollocs to escape to stronghold.

The points you are bringing up don't really have much to do with trying to get humans to pk inside gatekeep more often by making it more pk friendly. You'll still have Murash, the dreadlord, the warrior prac patty, the other patty of the trades guy, etc. And as you pointed out, stronghold has no gate, so it's not too hard to get in there if need be (just need to flee, as opposed to getting through a door). The points you are bringing up sound more suitable for a separate thread, I don't think they have direct relevance on this specific thread's proposed changes.

[Chase]

Josua? DS smob on the road..

I have no problems buffing stronghold, even though its so big and strong enough as it is that its hard to die as a trolloc in there.

FM isnt that buff imo. I'd take Agelmar over Easar and FM has no large mob patties. If DS has tons I usually go to TV just because I feel FM is weaker than FD.

[Kathryn]

My point is, if you do these proposed changes, then pk in GK will become commonplace, much like FD pk is now. As a direct result, trollocs will at times now get into a bad situation in keep. Not all the time, no, but it will definitely happen.

Whereas Humans have a safety net that is FM, trolls do not have the same thing.

[Harry]

stronghold>fal moran

[Kathryn]

stronghold would be greater than FM. If you remove the massively long choke zone that you have to traverse to get there. Or if you actually buff the mobs in there a little bit. Or if you put a gate on it.

[Harry]

Putting a gate on it makes it harder for you to get in, I thought that was the issue.

[Nyoga]

No, the gate isn't the issue. The issue you made is that you want to be able to easily enter GK and kill players and survive. Whether or not there was a gate on stronghold was never the problem. You just want the north gate on keep moved so there's an easier way for you to get out.

[Harry]

And everyone seems to be okay with that other than you. So could you come up with an actual coherent explanation of what you are wanting exactly? Seems like you're bitching just to bitch at this point.

[Nyoga]

And everyone seems to be okay with that other than you. So could you come up with an actual coherent explanation of what you are wanting exactly? Seems like you're bitching just to bitch at this point.

you make a totally ambiguous statement when you say 'everyone seems to be okay with it'. You claim I'm bitching when I'm actually not. I'm taking the stance that every potential repercussion needs to be taken into consideration when making a change.

My statements are perfectly coherent, if you can't understand them it is because your own biased short sightedness chooses to see only what you want to see. There was not a single bitchy statement in anything that I said. I'm all for making changes to keep. I'm just not all for making every single change you proposed. What I'm for is making changes that will consider every balance issue that will come about as a direct result of all of this.

Yap away, Lamgwin. There are no holes in what I've said about considering all options. You just hate to see anything that you consider disagreement with what you want personally.

[Harry]

And everyone seems to be okay with that other than you. So could you come up with an actual coherent explanation of what you are wanting exactly? Seems like you're bitching just to bitch at this point.

you make a totally ambiguous statement when you say 'everyone seems to be okay with it'. You claim I'm bitching when I'm actually not. I'm taking the stance that every potential repercussion needs to be taken into consideration when making a change.

Nope, every other person who posted said they're fine with my suggestions.

My statements are perfectly coherent, if you can't understand them it is because your own biased short sightedness chooses to see only what you want to see. There was not a single bitchy statement in anything that I said. I'm all for making changes to keep. I'm just not all for making every single change you proposed. What I'm for is making changes that will consider every balance issue that will come about as a direct result of all of this.

So which specific change do you not want to see made? That's what I mean when I say make a coherent explanation.

Yap away, Lamgwin. There are no holes in what I've said about considering all options. You just hate to see anything that you consider disagreement with what you want personally.

Or, I just want you to list the specific change you don't think is appropriate, and to give me a relevant reason backing up why you think that's the case. That's not too much to ask, it's the basis of rational discussion. You can just resort to personal insults though if you want.

[Harry]

Keep jump exit doesn't even work, found that out today.

http://www.kinslayermud.org/forums/view ... =15&t=5150

This means the current version of gatekeep is even less human friendly that I thought!

[Barf]

I only read the part about downing the keep mobs. if the gate would lead to that kinda choke zone out east then it would be ok I think. But I haven't actually thought about this much.

[Harry]

There is nothing about downing keep mobs being suggested.

1. Make the room 1s of dreadlord no mob.

2. Make an eastern gate all e of said no mob room.

3. Remove woodendoor exit in north keep.

That's all that's being suggested....

[Barf]

Um, why would there be a gate w/o guards? lol. But yeah, those sound like good ideas. (maybe like a 2-3 mob gate)
I am also going to suggest that there be a 1-2 mob patty at bowl north of fd for ds. And a 1-2 patty like it for ls too, I think this will make 1v1 more fun. Because, as it is now, ds will have to either run fd pat (3-4 mobs) or fm patt (3 really good mobs) and ls has to run gap patty (3mobs) or inside the city. This doesn't have anything to do with keep, but I think it is a good idea. But yeah, making another gate at keep is good.

[Harry]

OHHHMGG THE NO MOB ROOM IS 1S OF DREADLORD. THE GATE IS 1S ALL E OF DREADLORD.

[Barf]

Stupid 1 am eyes and brain sorry about that. But how does my other idea sound?