The State of PK

Jule · Post by **Jule** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:11 pm

I struggle to understand how a zerk abser with a mob helping him wouldnt completely smash a rogue.

I think we should get a skill exactly like pstrike and backstab for warrior pracs.

Post by **Rhollor** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:20 pm

If you want a skill exactly like pstrike and backstab become a thief.

Jule · Post by **Jule** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:23 pm

You know what Rhollor you are right. We are should just quit playing abs characters altogether instead of actually fixing this imbalance

Otar · Post by **Otar** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:24 pm

I think that absers should be able to completely destroy dodge, dodge is for sneaking around and stabbing shit. Do you really think that some dildo running around with some cloth on him should be able to stand toe to toe with someone in 60 pounds of metal, wielding a 5 foot sword?!? That's retarded. 'oh, but he could just dodge out of the way, those swords are unwieldly' NONONONONO those swords are NOT unwieldly, not if you're halfway to strong. Point is, ABS should be able to destroy dodge.

Post by **Rhollor** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:24 pm

I didnt say that. I said if you want thief skills, at the same cost as a thief, to become a thief. You're welcome to use abs as a thief.

Lamgwin · Post by **Lamgwin** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:18 pm

Let me add some clarity to this discussion.

The main issues right now are that thieves' melee damage output is too high, and that they are too good at toe to toe fighting.

The point of a thief is to be able to do a lot of damage quickly, but then lose in toe to toe combat. Right now, contrary to the claims of Kathryn, Jinn, etc, rogues have the upper hand in 1 on 1 matches without the use of mobs. If thieves are going to continue to be the best toe to toe fighters without mob use then the damage of their backstab skill should be reduced dramatically. Right now they have a skill that lands for the most damage, capable of blicking a person with 450+ hps, while also being able to go toe to toe with said 450+ hp person in melee combat.

People who are using absorption equipment should be able to beat a rogue in straight up fight without the use of mobs.

People who use a dagger and normal clothing should be able to have a large burst of damage, after which they then have minimal damage output.

Right now neither of these situations are how it is.

Lamgwin · Post by **Lamgwin** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:19 pm

Evilina nailed you pretty hard on the qps thing Chase. Simply because you have qps doesn't mean you should be able to use whatever weapon you want and be able to have nice bash, damage, and pb.

Kathryn · Post by **Kathryn** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:35 pm

I'm the one that said that, Lamgwin

Chase · Post by **Chase** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:59 pm

Looks like whoever posted about Nyoga not being legends cant post anything. Finally all that running around not landing any stabs and syphoning wps finally got him somewhere!

Kathryn · Post by **Kathryn** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:05 pm

lmao. Nyoga never stabs. You are so right. Ask heritage when he got blicked along with his alts, or any of the other multitude of people.

Raiden · Post by **Raiden** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:26 am

Let me start by saying this is not a post-death whine..I havent died in a long time.
Im going to reiterate what has already been said in hopes that something is done about it:
Dodge thieves are too strong at the moment. Bash is completely underpowered, and while you're missing all those bashes the thief is easily able to get off 2 attacks a round as well as pstrike between rounds. Fighting an unmastered thief yesterday Raiden straight up lost 1 on 1. The thief was in full dodge and I was in full abs with a bashing master. Now I dont care what you may say, but I rarely lose fights 1 on 1, so obviously something is different. Especially since I had a master weapon, postures, and the guy was hamstrung. Bash just doesnt land enough to counter the amount of damage that a thief can dish out in straight up melee.
After fighting and losing to the unmastered thief, I proceeded to fight a full abser. Yet again bashes were failing and failing, I counted 5 missed bashes out of about 8 or 9 total.
I therefore assume the problem is actually with bash..so can imms please look at it. kthxbye

Obould · Post by **Obould** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:42 am

Raiden you are in a defensive setup so you should not bash full dodge well, if you guys do anything to dodge you will totally screw over channies as our db is maxed around 132 compared to a thieves 142ish, I died 2 times yesterday because of bash. Abs bashers eat me alive on average so the issue isn't with bash.

Post by **Rhollor** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:59 am

Raiden if you were fighting an abser (basher I assume) and you are not set up to be a full abs basher then it would make sense that he beats you in bash face offs, so unless those were 5 straight misses (no face off) then theres absolutely no problem there.

Raiden · Post by **Raiden** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:49 am

Repeated for those who dont bother to read:
Fighting an unmastered thief yesterday Raiden straight up lost 1 on 1. The thief was in full dodge and I was in full abs with a bashing master

Bash and dodge need to be looked at. Theres no 2 ways about it. We gotta see past our own personal biases and take a look at it. I play dodge thieves too, I play channies too..its not a matter of personal gain its a matter of balance. If this many prominent and active pkers are saying theres a problem, then there probably is.

Post by **Rhollor** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:58 am

If you're posting to me...

Raiden wrote:After fighting and losing to the unmastered thief, I proceeded to fight a full abser. Yet again bashes were failing and failing, I counted 5 missed bashes out of about 8 or 9 total.

Looked like you were complaining that you couldnt bash vs an abs basher, hence my reply in reference to this.

Philosoraptor · Post by **Philosoraptor** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:15 pm

Raiden wrote:Fighting an unmastered thief yesterday Raiden straight up lost 1 on 1. The thief was in full dodge and I was in full abs with a bashing master.

Rhollor wrote:Raiden if you were fighting an abser (basher I assume) and you are not set up to be a full abs basher

Rhollor wrote: If you're posting to me...

Raiden wrote: After fighting and losing to the unmastered thief, I proceeded to fight a full abser. Yet again bashes were failing and failing, I counted 5 missed bashes out of about 8 or 9 total.

Looked like you were complaining that you couldnt bash vs an abs basher, hence my reply in reference to this.

Good god Rhollor.

Obould · Post by **Obould** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:32 pm

Yeah I misread that Raiden, what is your master based on?

Heritage · Post by **Heritage** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:36 pm

think its claymore, he couldnt wield a steel bound because of str issue. so really his only options are claymore and voulge for bashing

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:58 pm

Raiden wrote:Repeated for those who dont bother to read:
Fighting an unmastered thief yesterday Raiden straight up lost 1 on 1. The thief was in full dodge and I was in full abs with a bashing master

I assume i'm the thief you were talking about. You were in combo not abs.

I don't think combo should have the same benefits as abs (as in amazing bash). You were bashing me 1/3 1/4 times which i think is appropriate for a combo player.

Once again for those of you who didn't get it: Combo should not bash as well as absers. They already pull 250+ defense which prevents a lot of melee attacks going through.

In the same dodge setup, heritage was bashing me about 50/50 (138 db)

Philosoraptor · Post by **Philosoraptor** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:01 pm

You, Jinn, keep lying about numbers. Heritage doesn't bash 50%, Raiden wouldn't bash 33% with a claymore master.

Unless all the planets aligned and they had the most crazy of rolls, then perhaps they would for a short amount of time. But the overall %s aren't close to what you think they are. And I'm frankly getting tired of you guys making shit up.

Heritage · Post by **Heritage** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:13 pm

i dont land 50% even when yall are hamstrung. sometimes i get extremely lucky, but for the most part its terrible. when a dodger is fleeing around and walks back into my missed bash 3 times, thats pretty sad.

Raiden · Post by **Raiden** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:13 pm

Jinn wrote: I assume I'm the thief you were talking about. You were in combo not abs.

I don't think combo should have the same benefits as abs (as in amazing bash). You were bashing me 1/3 1/4 times which I think is appropriate for a combo player.

Once again for those of you who didn't get it: Combo should not bash as well as absers. They already pull 250+ defense which prevents a lot of melee attacks going through.

In the same dodge setup, heritage was bashing me about 50/50 (138 db)

OMG WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE. IF I SAY IM WEARING FULL ABS IM WEARING FULL ABS. I WAS WEARING FULL ABS. IM STILL WEARING FULL ABS. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Your armor absorbs 64% damage on average.
Your armor absorbs 64% damage on average.
Your armor absorbs 64% damage on average.
Your armor absorbs 64% damage on average.

Talmaes · Post by **Talmaes** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:14 pm

Otar wrote:I think that absers should be able to completely destroy dodge, dodge is for sneaking around and stabbing sh**. Do you really think that some dildo running around with some cloth on him should be able to stand toe to toe with someone in 60 pounds of metal, wielding a 5 foot sword?!? That's retarded. 'oh, but he could just dodge out of the way, those swords are unwieldly' NONONONONO those swords are NOT unwieldly, not if you're halfway to strong. Point is, ABS should be able to destroy dodge.

This. Its the complete opposite right now, if Im in abs and I see a dodger I have to flee around like mad while running timers and praying for a bash to land or sit at mobs.

Kathryn · Post by **Kathryn** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:15 pm

heritage bashes 137 db at least 50%. Heritage bashes 144 DB at least 33%.

These numbers are not made up at all.

Heritage · Post by **Heritage** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:20 pm

In the same dodge setup, heritage was bashing me about 50/50 (138 db)

50%?!!!!! idk the last time that i landed half my bashes. i missed like 10 on you in hold and you were hamstrung. thats insane.

if you base bashing off of my abilities then it will never be balanced. balance it off of nonmaster people like talmaes who have 20 str wielding the best possible weapon atm.