Bows

Chase · Post by **Chase** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:02 pm

Can we look at the bashing shot from bows? Seems a little bit out of whack, especially vs combo. Thanks

Evilina · Post by **Evilina** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:28 pm

how about posting the log to provide constructive input of why bows are over powered.

Post by **Koradin** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:33 pm

In light of your comments I'll take another look at the landing rate vs abs and combo, but I do want to point out a couple things.

1. Power shot has no damage multiplier like bash does.

2. Power shot doesn't last as long as bash all the time.

I'll post again once I've investigated.

Lamgwin · Post by **Lamgwin** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:33 pm

as bows are currently set up, someone like barf who is in full dodge/bash set up, can fire an arrow and even if i bash him, his arrow then stuns me, which means i do no damage to him. so he can sit there and melee me in between bashes, and then shoot his stun at me, making me incapable of hitting him unless he hits me at a gate patty, or some other numerous mob area.

Barf · Post by **Barf** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:36 pm

Which I do a lot if you haven't noticed

, btw here is my death log:
BASH OF DOOOM!!!!!!

*Dokes* tries to pierce Nicotine's arms, but misses.
*Dokes* tries to pierce Nicotine's body, but misses.
*Lamgwin* tries to crush Nicotine's head, but misses.
*Lamgwin* tries to crush your feet, but misses.

HP:Battered MV:Fresh - Lamgwin: Battered>

HP:Battered MV:Fresh - Lamgwin: Battered>
Nicotine flails out at *Lamgwin*, who steps out of the way.

HP:Battered MV:Fresh - Lamgwin: Battered>

= - +
*
After stretching your bowstring tight, you fire a powerful shot from a delicate hunting bow!

HP:Battered MV:Fresh - Lamgwin: Battered>

*Dokes* tries to pierce Nicotine's hands, but misses.
You barely tickle *Lamgwin*'s hands with your sting.

HP:Battered MV:Fresh - Lamgwin: Battered>

An arrow blazes through the air with added speed and power...

HP:Battered MV:Fresh - Lamgwin: Battered>

Nicotine avoids being bashed by *Lamgwin* who loses his balance and falls!
*Lamgwin* sends you sprawling with a powerful bash!
*Chase* has arrived from the south, riding a black warhorse.
A black-eyed raven has arrived from the south.

HP:Battered MV:Fresh - Lamgwin: Battered>

An arrow slams into *Lamgwin* with unbelievable force, knocking him off his feet!
*Chase* leaves north, riding a black warhorse.
A black-eyed raven leaves north.

HP:Battered MV:Fresh - Lamgwin: Battered>

*Chase* has arrived from the north, riding a black warhorse.
A black-eyed raven has arrived from the north.

HP:Battered MV:Fresh - Lamgwin: Battered>

*Chase* tries to slash Nicotine's body, but he parries the attack.

HP:Battered MV:Fresh - Lamgwin: Battered>

*Dokes* tries to pierce Nicotine's head, but misses.
*Dokes* tries to pierce Nicotine's head, but misses.

HP:Battered MV:Fresh - Lamgwin: Battered>

Nicotine steps into the shadows, disengaging from combat.

HP:Battered MV:Fresh - Lamgwin: Battered>

Nicotine leaves east.

HP:Battered MV:Fresh - Lamgwin: Battered>

f
*Chase* slashes your legs into bloody fragments!

HP:Beaten MV:Fresh - Lamgwin: Battered>

*Dokes* pierces your body into bloody fragments!
You wish that your wounds would stop BLEEDING so much!

HP:Beaten MV:Fresh - Lamgwin: Battered>

*Dokes* pierces your legs hard.
You wish that your wounds would stop BLEEDING so much!
*Dokes* pierces your body into bloody fragments!
You wish that your wounds would stop BLEEDING so much!
*Chase* slashes your hands into bloody fragments!
You wish that your wounds would stop BLEEDING so much!
*Lamgwin* crushes your head into bloody fragments!
You wish that your wounds would stop BLEEDING so much!
Your fame has been diminished.
You are dead! Sorry...

Lamgwin · Post by **Lamgwin** » Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:44 pm

what does that death log have to do with anything?! you got bashed with 3 people on you at battered in dodge and you died?!

Post by **Koradin** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:09 am

Dodge and abs looked fine upon review, but Chase was right; combo was a bit lacking.

I've made a change that will enable combo setup players to dodge more power shots.

Lamgwin · Post by **Lamgwin** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:10 am

what does look fine mean? what percentages are we talking about here?!

Post by **Koradin** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:42 pm

Pshot will land on a person in full abs about 70% of the time depending on skill level and abs %.

Pshot will land on a person in full combo about 45% of the time depending on skill level and parry/abs.

Pshot will land on a person in full land on a person in full dodge about 20% of the time depending on skill level and db.

I would give each of the above %'s a 10% swing either way when calculating your personal averages.

Barf · Post by **Barf** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:02 pm

when he says 45% he means it, I landed like half the pshots that I would have landed on tibs. that log was just funny too

, nothing pertaining at all.

Lamgwin · Post by **Lamgwin** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:34 pm

it seems to me that pshot has the potential to be used in this following scenario: two people who are fighting are both low, one person runs to some mobs. this person then sits at the mobs and shoots his pshot at an abser. even if the abser gets a bash off, he then gets stunned, with all the mobs attacking him, and essentially can't finish off said person.

it just seems too defensive to me.

Post by **Rhollor** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:32 pm

A dodge basher can do the same thing by spam bashing. Kinda a moot point you make imo.

Lamgwin · Post by **Lamgwin** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:11 pm

except if i land my bash, then i can hit him?

Post by **Koradin** » Sat May 01, 2010 12:20 am

So you have a 30% chance to land your bash on the dodger, and a 30% chance to miss the pshot once you've landed your bash on the abser... sounds pretty fair.

Lamgwin · Post by **Lamgwin** » Sat May 01, 2010 12:24 am

you mean, i've got a 30% chance of landing on the dodger, and a 70% chance of being stunned after bashing said abser. nice try on trying to manipulate the data to make it look less shitty than it is.

Post by **Koradin** » Sat May 01, 2010 12:35 am

Either way you look at it you're going to succeed against either of those opponents 30% of the time.

Lamgwin · Post by **Lamgwin** » Sat May 01, 2010 12:37 am

no, you aren't taking into account the % chance of missing a bash on an abser. i'm better off against a full dodge/basher spam bashing.

Angst · Post by **Angst** » Fri May 07, 2010 6:37 pm

I think crit hit while wielded from back interupting should be brought back! Appreciate Koradin taking input and stuff but I don't see what the problem was with it. I would say with 92% bows and 96% critical hit I got critical hits maybe 10% of shots that landed. And maybe once a fight would land a critical hit on someone running a timer. I sacreficed half my pracs to get this skill and really thats the only use I have for it.

Who really got messed over that hard by this feature?

Abs(me) vs abs I might have a little bit of an advantage with the very small chance of interupting their bash vs mine and the 1 or 2 dmg extra i do every 2-6 rounds, but I invested pracs to do it.

Abs(me) vs dodge/combo basher I'd say Im even or they have advantage. They have greater chance of dodging my shots not to mention my bashes.

Constructive response please.

Post by **Koradin** » Fri May 07, 2010 8:41 pm

Your post is well thought out and I am considering changing it back... Can we get more player feedback on Angst's idea?

Lamgwin · Post by **Lamgwin** » Fri May 07, 2010 8:55 pm

His argument seems to be mostly using his opinion as to why it should be brought back with very little actual evidence. What are the actual percent chances that it goes off, lands on abs/combo/dodge, etc?

Angst · Post by **Angst** » Fri May 07, 2010 8:59 pm

Htf should I know. I gave you my estimates for how it has worked for me. I've fought Tiberius quite a bit with bow and I don't recall in the 3 or 4 fights 1v1 having stopped his bash more than twice.

Lamgwin · Post by **Lamgwin** » Fri May 07, 2010 9:07 pm

I was responding to Koradin, saying that your post doesn't provide enough information to make a decision on if critical shot should be able to be used by a bow worn on your back or not.

Evilina · Post by **Evilina** » Fri May 07, 2010 9:12 pm

Angst wrote:I think crit hit while wielded from back interupting should be brought back! Appreciate Koradin taking input and stuff but I don't see what the problem was with it. I would say with 92% bows and 96% critical hit I got critical hits maybe 10% of shots that landed. And maybe once a fight would land a critical hit on someone running a timer. I sacreficed half my pracs to get this skill and really thats the only use I have for it.

Who really got messed over that hard by this feature?

Abs(me) vs abs I might have a little bit of an advantage with the very small chance of interupting their bash vs mine and the 1 or 2 dmg extra I do every 2-6 rounds, but I invested pracs to do it.

Abs(me) vs dodge/combo basher I'd say Im even or they have advantage. They have greater chance of dodging my shots not to mention my bashes.

Constructive response please.

What about the other side of the argument you didn't mention, dodgers who practice all the necessary skills and can still afford to get bow and crit hit.

We need to reduce the amount of skills and items which stun.

Angst · Post by **Angst** » Fri May 07, 2010 9:15 pm

Have you had any problems with it Lamgwin?

Lamgwin · Post by **Lamgwin** » Fri May 07, 2010 9:16 pm

Yeah, that was another thing that I noticed in his post that didn't make much sense. So he sacrificed not having 3 weapons practiced to 99% for having bows?