So I had an idea that might return stab to a surprise attack scenario.
varying levels of notice, at a cost of moves.
Basically, you can have notice to 99 percent but that does not indicate how much actual effort you are using to prevent being stabbed.
So, you could do something like "notice 0" which would be like notice is now.. If you are spamming it might do something.
or you could have "notice 1" at the cost of 1 additional move per room to have a better chance at seeing someone hiding or prevent a stab. you could also increase these numbers up to 10 or whatever. Each step increasing the moves per room, but also making it more effective. So, if you are in a small area where you know there is a stabber, you can turn your notice up and let him run his timer when you see him walk in to the room while you start a bash knowing you have put a lot of effort in to not getting stabbed. It would add a whole new level of complexity and stop some of this fleestab shit. If you dont like the per room idea, you could ahve a move cost to activate it and keep the long timer it has so you have to reactivate it on occasion.
like a multiplier of 5 moves per level to turn it on, that way you can still chase, but will be down moves for a bit.
As it is, stab fecking insane and the ONLY solution I have is to spam endlessly. This prevents the use of tactics entirely.
stab and notice
well I havn't tried running a stab on someone in a month 
but a month ago I couldn't land anything on a warrior who had 99 notice turned on
and only landed when I actually caught them completely off guard on the fact I was stabby, which is not my usual play style, or against someone who didn't have 99 notice :p lol, wich is rare.
so basically, whenever pking shows up, sure I have awsome awsome def compared to wot, but compared to other dodge or parry players, I be not doing so good, may I say ,) wielding a dagger.
but a month ago I couldn't land anything on a warrior who had 99 notice turned on and only landed when I actually caught them completely off guard on the fact I was stabby, which is not my usual play style
, or against someone who didn't have 99 notice :p lol, wich is rare.so basically, whenever pking shows up, sure I have awsome awsome def compared to wot, but compared to other dodge or parry players, I be not doing so good, may I say ,) wielding a dagger.
stabs are hard enough to get off as it is, in my opinion. It sounds like you want notice the way it is now (90+ notice and you are stab proof if you spam) plus you want people to have a chance to lower the stab land % based on what level you set your notice to? so if I'm afk, looking in another window, or just chatting it up sitting around (which is how thieves get their surprise stabs 99% of the time) and I set my notice level to 10, I'm basically unstabbable even if the thief gets the surprise stab in because he'll have a crazy high chance to brick on me?
I think the main problem with thieves is that the majority of players who play thieves have played them for a LONG time and are good at them...take a person who is average at playing a thief and give him the current set up for classes we have now, and he's at a severe disadvantage because bash and weaves are still superior.
This goes with all characters, while I'm on the subject... the players that play this mud are mostly veteran pkers, and it's hard to balance the game based on mixing bad pkers with good pkers. It's not necessarily the game mechanics that are bad, it's the difference in skill levels.
This goes with all characters, while I'm on the subject... the players that play this mud are mostly veteran pkers, and it's hard to balance the game based on mixing bad pkers with good pkers. It's not necessarily the game mechanics that are bad, it's the difference in skill levels.
ok, so what about having no quit from a player (length of time left on timer or something) be something that factors in.
I am all for the surprise stab, and the not paying attention stab, and your point about just sitting around with notice 10 is a valid one. However, since I have started playing again with 99% on as soon as I log in (and checked regularly) I have done nothing but get stabbed dead or one hit from dead.
My point is that I shouldnt have to spam with 99% notice turned on to prevent eating a stab. I would much rather be able to run my own timer with the full expectation that because my character has seen the name or spotted the 'presence' of the stabber that I will be on my guard.
So if there is a flag that says 'I am attempting to kill a stabber' that can either be added or adapted that increases the effectiveness of notice when a player KNOWS a stabber is near it would do more to require surprise and open up more options for more tactful PK then spamming mercilessly.
so perhaps the idea doesnt quite work, but I think the reasoning behind the idea is sound.
I am all for the surprise stab, and the not paying attention stab, and your point about just sitting around with notice 10 is a valid one. However, since I have started playing again with 99% on as soon as I log in (and checked regularly) I have done nothing but get stabbed dead or one hit from dead.
My point is that I shouldnt have to spam with 99% notice turned on to prevent eating a stab. I would much rather be able to run my own timer with the full expectation that because my character has seen the name or spotted the 'presence' of the stabber that I will be on my guard.
So if there is a flag that says 'I am attempting to kill a stabber' that can either be added or adapted that increases the effectiveness of notice when a player KNOWS a stabber is near it would do more to require surprise and open up more options for more tactful PK then spamming mercilessly.
so perhaps the idea doesnt quite work, but I think the reasoning behind the idea is sound.
Here's a random idea I had a few days ago:
What if when a thief is flagged with NO QUIT, he cannot start a stab on a player who is engaged on another player? This would make flee stabbing, which is probably among the most frustrating things to fight against, a lot more difficult to pull off. In addition, Backstab landing rate when not flagged with NO QUIT would be increased. I feel this would make fighting thieves a lot less frustrating, while still rewarding thieves who can successfully sneak up on someone.
What if when a thief is flagged with NO QUIT, he cannot start a stab on a player who is engaged on another player? This would make flee stabbing, which is probably among the most frustrating things to fight against, a lot more difficult to pull off. In addition, Backstab landing rate when not flagged with NO QUIT would be increased. I feel this would make fighting thieves a lot less frustrating, while still rewarding thieves who can successfully sneak up on someone.
Maybe; if backstab without NO QUIT ment 100% stab and guaranteed kill. b/c really where is a person going to afk? or maybe not pay attention enough? in a city. Whats in cities? Mobs? Mobs aggro alot.
Unless you differentiate between mob no quit and pk no quit...
As it is now I think stabs are VERY hard to get off. 50% of the time you find someone AFK/oblivious to your presence (pretty rare unless 2 people are on MUD and nothing has happened for hours and you go to the far reaches of the MUD) they are either in a huge patty room and you get attacked or something along those lines OR you freaking brick...
In my opinion this isnt a horrible idea but it should go both ways, when someone hasn't engaged the stabber in some time, then they should die 99.99% of the time with 99% in skills...
Big thing for the idea is PK vs mob no quit. And I only even gave the thought a chance bc thieves have a bit more of a combat ability(though while useful sometimes not my favorite). Of course however this is all biased as I am a thief that tries very hard to get lots of unnoticed kills (and often fails).
Unless you differentiate between mob no quit and pk no quit...
As it is now I think stabs are VERY hard to get off. 50% of the time you find someone AFK/oblivious to your presence (pretty rare unless 2 people are on MUD and nothing has happened for hours and you go to the far reaches of the MUD) they are either in a huge patty room and you get attacked or something along those lines OR you freaking brick...
In my opinion this isnt a horrible idea but it should go both ways, when someone hasn't engaged the stabber in some time, then they should die 99.99% of the time with 99% in skills...
Big thing for the idea is PK vs mob no quit. And I only even gave the thought a chance bc thieves have a bit more of a combat ability(though while useful sometimes not my favorite). Of course however this is all biased as I am a thief that tries very hard to get lots of unnoticed kills (and often fails).
I would also like to point out that not being able to run timers on engaged people cuts down a _whole_ lot on timers even attempted to run.
I would say a pretty small % of stabs are flee stabs, and a even smaller % are intentional. Biggest killers are: walk-backs, mob engaged (timer v timer), and just losing timer rolls.
I would say a pretty small % of stabs are flee stabs, and a even smaller % are intentional. Biggest killers are: walk-backs, mob engaged (timer v timer), and just losing timer rolls.
Perhaps something could look at time until NO QUIT is removed. Since pk no quit warrants 10? minutes, and mob no quit 5? Therefore, if no quit length is greater than 5, you could treat that as pk no quit, less than 5, mob. Unless, Fogel, you'd rather determine if a player was flagged because of pk or mob engage.
Yeah, I would probably have it look at the NO QUIT duration left. A duration of 1 is assigned by a mob and 5 by a player, so I'd probably have the effect active if 2-3 or more ticks are remaining.Alder wrote:Perhaps something could look at time until NO QUIT is removed. Since pk no quit warrants 10? minutes, and mob no quit 5? Therefore, if no quit length is greater than 5, you could treat that as pk no quit, less than 5, mob. Unless, Fogel, you'd rather determine if a player was flagged because of pk or mob engage.
I think it is silly that notice doesnt play a role in determining landing percent. If I see someone hiding, I am not going to let them put a knife in my back.
If I see someone hiding I should have to attack them to prevent myself being stabbed in the back.
hell, perhaps have a skill like 'reflexes' that will lower the landing rate of certain skills or give you a something good when they miss. Like if they try to stab you, you simply step aside. It would be contingent on notice. Or if someone misses a bash on you, you get a free instant attack (of opportunity)
If would be another skill so people would have to weigh options on what to prac, but it would give some benefits to simply being really good at straight up combat.
If I see someone hiding I should have to attack them to prevent myself being stabbed in the back.
hell, perhaps have a skill like 'reflexes' that will lower the landing rate of certain skills or give you a something good when they miss. Like if they try to stab you, you simply step aside. It would be contingent on notice. Or if someone misses a bash on you, you get a free instant attack (of opportunity)
If would be another skill so people would have to weigh options on what to prac, but it would give some benefits to simply being really good at straight up combat.