-Galnor
New Changes to Practices
New Changes to Practices
This'll be dedicated to discussion on the changes I've made with practices. We'll offer another restat, reset, whatever, since we're still testing things out. The ultimate goal is to get to a balanced state, not to screw people over. Please post your concerns and I'll gladly listen. Please keep it civil and on topic.
-Galnor
-Galnor
I'd love to see 4 pracs per lvl or 5 pracs per lvl reinstated for both sides.
In earlier days, it was 4 for trolls and 5 for humans. I don't see the point of that other than to keep it the same for both sides, and just add 10 pracs to LS for riding horses.
In our current state, and with this new system(which is flipping sweet) we are too hurt by practices to even manage anything other than a typical abser setup.
And even then, the abser maxes out weapon/bash, so they still are at their full potential, while a dodger will never get maxed out shield parry and dodge unless they lack skills such as stab/bash/charge.(which would be pointless with how bad dodge is)
My main problem lies in the fact that the warriors and typical absers can be played to full potential, while the other classes for dodgers etc are lacking.
Adding in 4 pracs per lvl(maybe just to start a change) and then possibly 5 pracs per lvl would help this problem very much in my opinion. If dodgers are giving the ablitity to max out their shield parry and dodge, I truly think a more of a balance between absers and dodgers will be reinstated.
I really don't think kinslayer is meant to be this gruesome on pracs, it really isn't fun when you go to the prac trainers anymore, it used to be cool to try all the different things one could do, now I pray I can get 86% in most stuff.
In earlier days, it was 4 for trolls and 5 for humans. I don't see the point of that other than to keep it the same for both sides, and just add 10 pracs to LS for riding horses.
In our current state, and with this new system(which is flipping sweet) we are too hurt by practices to even manage anything other than a typical abser setup.
And even then, the abser maxes out weapon/bash, so they still are at their full potential, while a dodger will never get maxed out shield parry and dodge unless they lack skills such as stab/bash/charge.(which would be pointless with how bad dodge is)
My main problem lies in the fact that the warriors and typical absers can be played to full potential, while the other classes for dodgers etc are lacking.
Adding in 4 pracs per lvl(maybe just to start a change) and then possibly 5 pracs per lvl would help this problem very much in my opinion. If dodgers are giving the ablitity to max out their shield parry and dodge, I truly think a more of a balance between absers and dodgers will be reinstated.
I really don't think kinslayer is meant to be this gruesome on pracs, it really isn't fun when you go to the prac trainers anymore, it used to be cool to try all the different things one could do, now I pray I can get 86% in most stuff.
basically you have to balance pracs against the most prac hungry class getting the minimum requirements to be effective and the rest under that should be fine.
Dodge rangers need high dodge/shield/weapon/notice/+1 offensive skill(kick/charge/bash) + enough ride to use said skill, 2pracs track and 2pracs survival.
Thats about the bare bones you can balance against, not maxed skills, they can go without offense skill if they want to max stuff out, or level up vurek level for a bit of gravy to polish off skills.
Dodge rangers need high dodge/shield/weapon/notice/+1 offensive skill(kick/charge/bash) + enough ride to use said skill, 2pracs track and 2pracs survival.
Thats about the bare bones you can balance against, not maxed skills, they can go without offense skill if they want to max stuff out, or level up vurek level for a bit of gravy to polish off skills.
I would love to see 4 pracs per level as a trolloc. This 3 a level kills me, and I can imagine its worse then rogues, as rogues at least have most of their skills as rogue skills. Being a combo ranger, even at level 20 I can not afford to get 92% in dodge, shield parry and my weapon. And right now, thats the only 3 skills I have practiced. And 2 of them are around 88%ish. So I figure that by level 50 I might be able to get all 3 of them 92%, and some notice with a few pracs in bash, or search, depending on which one I want the most.
And with the new prac change as of 26 Dec. My pracs have to be the worst in the damn game. I get 13% at warrior and rogue, and 10% at ranger. So my int went from 3 to 10, and my pracs went from 15% at rogue warrior, to 13%. Kinda hurt, alot. If Int is going to affect the pracs we get, trollocs should get more pracs per level.
And with the new prac change as of 26 Dec. My pracs have to be the worst in the damn game. I get 13% at warrior and rogue, and 10% at ranger. So my int went from 3 to 10, and my pracs went from 15% at rogue warrior, to 13%. Kinda hurt, alot. If Int is going to affect the pracs we get, trollocs should get more pracs per level.
I just want to point out that with this new stat system, abs will always be superior to dodge and combo. I say this because absers only need 2 stats. Only 2, str and con. Which they can get both to 19 easy enough. Where as a rogue does semi-ok because they can get 20 dex pretty easy, but they have to drop something else to do it. But still they can put up a fight against absers because they have the higher dex which = higher db. Combo/dodge rangers basically are not meant to be. There is no way to really do it, because you need a balance of all 3. Which makes them inferior to both the other classes. Not balanced in my opinion. At least in the old statting system rangers could hope to get nice stats.
I propose that on login, characters get a chance to either roll stats (choose their own, great for abs or for rogues that want 20 dex) or stat for them. Difference being that if you stat for them, there should be caps on certain stats. And maxes. 19 Being the max for any stat if you choose to stat regularly. Caps for instance being 19 17 19 for warriors (not real dextrous, but at least let them get semi high dex) And 18 18 19 for rangers (not as strong as warriors, but more dexterous) and 17 19 18 (for rogues) Just ideas I want to throw out. Because I do not want to play abs. And I do not want to play a rogue. So I am shit out of luck. I basically should not bother to try because my stats will always be supbar with this statting system we have atm. As rogues as well.
Abs have the superiority as it is because there simplicity. They only need to prac their weapon, bash, and then whatever else they choose. Throw in any combination you want, they can afford it all. Rogues, and dodgey/combo rangers have to prac shield parry, dodge, weapon (hide, sneak, and stab for rogues/bash or kick or something for rangers) and then anything else they might want, if they can afford it. I just think as it is, that warriors have it a hell of alot easier then any other class in every aspect. Survivability, better pracs, easier to re-equip, can even prac 2 weapons. There is not a skill that affects abs %, but dodgey types rely on 3 skills for their defense. Shield parry, weapon %, and dodge. Without those 3 things, you dont have defense. Sorry if I posted this in the wrong section.
I want to point out that this is just about the balance between the 3 classes. Nothing more then that. If they can be balanced with this stat system hooray. I just want to have the same chance as absers. Then again even rogues have it easier then rangers this time around.
I propose that on login, characters get a chance to either roll stats (choose their own, great for abs or for rogues that want 20 dex) or stat for them. Difference being that if you stat for them, there should be caps on certain stats. And maxes. 19 Being the max for any stat if you choose to stat regularly. Caps for instance being 19 17 19 for warriors (not real dextrous, but at least let them get semi high dex) And 18 18 19 for rangers (not as strong as warriors, but more dexterous) and 17 19 18 (for rogues) Just ideas I want to throw out. Because I do not want to play abs. And I do not want to play a rogue. So I am shit out of luck. I basically should not bother to try because my stats will always be supbar with this statting system we have atm. As rogues as well.
Abs have the superiority as it is because there simplicity. They only need to prac their weapon, bash, and then whatever else they choose. Throw in any combination you want, they can afford it all. Rogues, and dodgey/combo rangers have to prac shield parry, dodge, weapon (hide, sneak, and stab for rogues/bash or kick or something for rangers) and then anything else they might want, if they can afford it. I just think as it is, that warriors have it a hell of alot easier then any other class in every aspect. Survivability, better pracs, easier to re-equip, can even prac 2 weapons. There is not a skill that affects abs %, but dodgey types rely on 3 skills for their defense. Shield parry, weapon %, and dodge. Without those 3 things, you dont have defense. Sorry if I posted this in the wrong section.
I want to point out that this is just about the balance between the 3 classes. Nothing more then that. If they can be balanced with this stat system hooray. I just want to have the same chance as absers. Then again even rogues have it easier then rangers this time around.
so 1-sided... if things were to be random rolls, then pracs, statting ease, and all the rest of that jazz would be the exact same.Cannibal wrote: Abs have the superiority as it is because there simplicity. They only need to prac their weapon, bash, and then whatever else they choose. Throw in any combination you want, they can afford it all. Rogues, and dodgey/combo rangers have to prac shield parry, dodge, weapon (hide, sneak, and stab for rogues/bash or kick or something for rangers) and then anything else they might want, if they can afford it. I just think as it is, that warriors have it a hell of alot easier then any other class in every aspect. Survivability, better pracs, easier to re-equip, can even prac 2 weapons. There is not a skill that affects abs %, but dodgey types rely on 3 skills for their defense. Shield parry, weapon %, and dodge. Without those 3 things, you dont have defense. Sorry if I posted this in the wrong section.
Cannibal Lectar, Channiesbane [Dha'vol] is a level 21 trolloc ranger.
i truly wonder if you have actually put forth the effort to even stick it out and try things out. i do remember you logging in right after the resets and you went off "ROFLMAO! im useless!! screw that! im out!", just like that. didnt even give it a chance. i have a human combo ranger. norash also is combo. combo is not hard to play. yes it is harder to setup, but that's life. more trinks needed, etc. what are warriors suppose to be good at? bashing, buffing. what are dodgers suppose to be good at? dodging(20 dex), and combo does a combination, which should not be good as either or. so you'd logically sacrifice a few dex points to get some more con, so your health is a bit higher than a dodger, DB a bit lower than a dodger.
why not actually try making it to level 30 before complaining? you really dont know anything, especially if that is your only char.I want to point out that this is just about the balance between the 3 classes. Nothing more then that. If they can be balanced with this stat system hooray. I just want to have the same chance as absers. Then again even rogues have it easier then rangers this time around.
I, however, have leveled to lvl 50, and I also have played dodge/combo/abs and every damn weapon possible and setup possible thus far.
And I am in absolute complete agreement with Cannibal, and I'm glad that someone else out there that I highly respect understands this seemingly balanced unbalance.
Warriors do have the easy end on this, they can always max out there stats, and get even better than the original 19 19 of the random system, they can get amazing str.
Rogues have only really changed in that they have a little bit more dodge but with a great sacrifice to 1 physical stat or a medium in both.
And then we come to rangers, while on LS they can't even get 18 str, they also are limited to maxing one stat(con) similar to the str of warriors and dex of thieves. Yet, this leaves the ranger with a lower str and a lower dex, making them much more difficult to play.
I had 16 17 20 stats(frankly I haven't logged on Vurek since the restat b/c I want to take time to explore what the best possible stats for my limitations are, before ruining myself again.)
I tried dodge, had the best dodge set in the game during that time, and I only pulled 205 defense because practices were such crap(I was stab). But now those are fixed, sure it woulda been much better. But even then I did fairly decent.
Then I said screw dodge, as it was terrible for a time(still is cept uber sets), and went abs bash.
I had no problem playing abs bash, as I had 446 hps, yet I was probably the worst basher in the entire game.
Landing 30% on absers, and 70% on dodgers, I was a terrible basher character. And yet I still did damn fine.
The main problem lies that 21 19 or 20 19 grossly and easily overcomes 16 20 17(thief) or 16 17 20(ranger) any day. But like Cannibal, I don't want to play just an abser, and even then, I don't want to have to play multiple characters.
I believe that was another reason to draw folks to kinslayer, they got pimp stats(which aren't as hard as people say they are to get..) and they could play any type of character they wanted anytime. That was fun.
Just the limitations on Vurek's ranger stats turn me away from logging on to him, I just don't want to screw up my str/dex/con and affect my practices and then my bash and all these other factors.
And Zenrin said that if it was like the random system, everything would be the same.
While that is very well true, it also offers much more customization. And with this current system, everything is very much the same also. There's only several terrific options for each class, and the only class that has not changed but has only grown more powerful is that of the warrior.(although they lost their 14 hp bonus finnaly)
No matter what happens, the arguement that everyone will be the same is very true and will never end, as I firmly think that no matter what system is instated, we will always be similar to one another in stats and anything else.
And I am in absolute complete agreement with Cannibal, and I'm glad that someone else out there that I highly respect understands this seemingly balanced unbalance.
Warriors do have the easy end on this, they can always max out there stats, and get even better than the original 19 19 of the random system, they can get amazing str.
Rogues have only really changed in that they have a little bit more dodge but with a great sacrifice to 1 physical stat or a medium in both.
And then we come to rangers, while on LS they can't even get 18 str, they also are limited to maxing one stat(con) similar to the str of warriors and dex of thieves. Yet, this leaves the ranger with a lower str and a lower dex, making them much more difficult to play.
I had 16 17 20 stats(frankly I haven't logged on Vurek since the restat b/c I want to take time to explore what the best possible stats for my limitations are, before ruining myself again.)
I tried dodge, had the best dodge set in the game during that time, and I only pulled 205 defense because practices were such crap(I was stab
). But now those are fixed, sure it woulda been much better. But even then I did fairly decent.Then I said screw dodge, as it was terrible for a time(still is cept uber sets), and went abs bash.
I had no problem playing abs bash, as I had 446 hps, yet I was probably the worst basher in the entire game.
Landing 30% on absers, and 70% on dodgers, I was a terrible basher character. And yet I still did damn fine.
The main problem lies that 21 19 or 20 19 grossly and easily overcomes 16 20 17(thief) or 16 17 20(ranger) any day. But like Cannibal, I don't want to play just an abser, and even then, I don't want to have to play multiple characters.
I believe that was another reason to draw folks to kinslayer, they got pimp stats(which aren't as hard as people say they are to get..) and they could play any type of character they wanted anytime. That was fun.
Just the limitations on Vurek's ranger stats turn me away from logging on to him, I just don't want to screw up my str/dex/con and affect my practices and then my bash and all these other factors.
And Zenrin said that if it was like the random system, everything would be the same.
While that is very well true, it also offers much more customization. And with this current system, everything is very much the same also. There's only several terrific options for each class, and the only class that has not changed but has only grown more powerful is that of the warrior.(although they lost their 14 hp bonus finnaly
)No matter what happens, the arguement that everyone will be the same is very true and will never end, as I firmly think that no matter what system is instated, we will always be similar to one another in stats and anything else.
Your all saying that dodge sucks, combo sucks, etc at the moment, and I agree. You say that your classes are obsolete because the setups you want to play are useless, and thats true.
However, with that said, stop talking please.
You realize your rolling around in the 'best sets' in the game, but realize that they come nowhere close to what the best dodge and combo sets will look like.
Abs, however, has been maxed out as the best set being 60% abs.
So stop complaining about balance, and wait for the balance to be introduced with the better dodge trinkets.
However, with that said, stop talking please.
You realize your rolling around in the 'best sets' in the game, but realize that they come nowhere close to what the best dodge and combo sets will look like.
Abs, however, has been maxed out as the best set being 60% abs.
So stop complaining about balance, and wait for the balance to be introduced with the better dodge trinkets.
No, the warrior HP bonus still exists. my warrior's health hasn't dropped at all. but that is more or less what i think is the problem. too many hps. with 18 con i still pulled over 400 hps and thats over the top. let thieves keep their 20 dex thing, and even let warriors keep their 20/21 strength, but the 20 con shouldn't be possible. i'd take more hps over more ob any day.Vurek wrote:And Zenrin said that if it was like the random system, everything would be the same.
While that is very well true, it also offers much more customization. And with this current system, everything is very much the same also. There's only several terrific options for each class, and the only class that has not changed but has only grown more powerful is that of the warrior.(although they lost their 14 hp bonus finnaly
and just to make myself clear, im not saying that i disagree with cannibal. his post is completely 1-sided, though, since he hasn't even given his ranger a chance. you should always see for yourself before complaining, and level 21 is nowhere to be complaining at. pracs for rangers are fine. i tried them on my ranger and i have no problem getting to where i need to be. do i think abs has the overall advantage? Yes i do. the fact remains that my combo ranger was getting smacked up unbashed while fighting and on mobs. bash seems fine. maybe a bit too high, but fine.
also, sartak was much harder to get low than akrabbim.
Your right, it is a very 1 sided post. And it takes no more time then what I put in to find out exactly what I did. Everything I put in my post is true, and I know it even at level 21. I dont have to level to 50 for the 50th damn time to figure that out. I put ideas into that post that I thought perhaps gives everyone a chance to play what they want. You say it will be balanced, but that is not possible. In order for this combo ranger or stabby rogue to be as powerful in their own setup, the stats would have to be changed. How can you tell me, that when every single class gets 360 stat points to use, and some classes have to prac 3 stats instead of 2, that they are the same. Shit if i statted for abs I guess I would be on the bandwagon. I would have 0 problems being in 60% abs with 420+ hps tearing it up. And exactly how are channies going to be? 10 17 17 17 10. Or worse?
What I pointed out is that absers have the upper hand with the better stats. And what alot of you replied with was some bullsh*t line about trying stuff. When I put in 10+ hours to get level 21, why would I put in 10 more to get level 30. To figure this out all over again. The reply I get from you, is that I should have to sacrifice even other things that I barely have to get something else. Warriors work perfect, they are great, and I mean seriously great at what they do. Rogues almost work. Rangers that do not become cookie cutter absers are fucking pointless. And do not try to tell me otherwise. This time around, they did get shafted. I would rather have some sort of options of statting so I at least have a chance to compete with everyone else as far as stats go without having to be exactly like the rest of the absers.
I want to also say that warriors are great bashers, rogues are great stabbers, and rangers are decent at anything they do. Just not great. At least it should work this way. But as far as saying that rogues are dodge, and hunters are either or. I dont look at it like that. The job of warriors is to bash. Job of rogues is surprise attacks, aka stab. And then rangers who can go either or, comfortably, just not as good as the originals. If someone wants to reply to this. DO not do so objectively, looking only at your char and bitching about how I only have 1 char. Stop and look at it in perspective.Before this time there was very very few absers on legends. Now there is alot of them.The absers are balanced imo. The other classes I feel are not up to par with warriors though. I will post more later.
What I pointed out is that absers have the upper hand with the better stats. And what alot of you replied with was some bullsh*t line about trying stuff. When I put in 10+ hours to get level 21, why would I put in 10 more to get level 30. To figure this out all over again. The reply I get from you, is that I should have to sacrifice even other things that I barely have to get something else. Warriors work perfect, they are great, and I mean seriously great at what they do. Rogues almost work. Rangers that do not become cookie cutter absers are fucking pointless. And do not try to tell me otherwise. This time around, they did get shafted. I would rather have some sort of options of statting so I at least have a chance to compete with everyone else as far as stats go without having to be exactly like the rest of the absers.
I want to also say that warriors are great bashers, rogues are great stabbers, and rangers are decent at anything they do. Just not great. At least it should work this way. But as far as saying that rogues are dodge, and hunters are either or. I dont look at it like that. The job of warriors is to bash. Job of rogues is surprise attacks, aka stab. And then rangers who can go either or, comfortably, just not as good as the originals. If someone wants to reply to this. DO not do so objectively, looking only at your char and bitching about how I only have 1 char. Stop and look at it in perspective.Before this time there was very very few absers on legends. Now there is alot of them.The absers are balanced imo. The other classes I feel are not up to par with warriors though. I will post more later.
1-sided as in you only have one view. anyways, that is not important. what is important is how rediculous what you are saying is. you claim that with the current stat setup, dodge and combo are screwed, cannot compete. Now then let us imagine for a moment that all dodge and combo gear was boosted 50 defense. wouldn't then the advantage be shifted? do stats come into play then? nope. you're given a constant that ABSers aren't, so your claim that stats are all that matter is 100% bogus. Sorry.Your right, it is a very 1 sided post. And it takes no more time then what I put in to find out exactly what I did. Everything I put in my post is true, and I know it even at level 21. I dont have to level to 50 for the 50th d*** time to figure that out. I put ideas into that post that I thought perhaps gives everyone a chance to play what they want. You say it will be balanced, but that is not possible. In order for this combo ranger or stabby rogue to be as powerful in their own setup, the stats would have to be changed. How can you tell me, that when every single class gets 360 stat points to use, and some classes have to prac 3 stats instead of 2, that they are the same. **** if i statted for abs I guess I would be on the bandwagon. I would have 0 problems being in 60% abs with 420+ hps tearing it up. And exactly how are channies going to be? 10 17 17 17 10. Or worse?
It's not a bull**** comment, you just wish to see it as such. you shouldnt be complaining until you actually try it out. what really is annoying is your attitude, though. from when you logged on, flipped out over something that ended up changing, then you come here and give the negative tone.What I pointed out is that absers have the upper hand with the better stats. And what alot of you replied with was some bullsh*t line about trying stuff.
you would be suprised how little STR does for your OB and parry. Again you wouldnt know because you dont bother experimenting... you just flip out and quit before you give it a chance.When I put in 10+ hours to get level 21, why would I put in 10 more to get level 30. To figure this out all over again. The reply I get from you, is that I should have to sacrifice even other things that I barely have to get something else. Warriors work perfect, they are great, and I mean seriously great at what they do. Rogues almost work. Rangers that do not become cookie cutter absers are **** pointless. And do not try to tell me otherwise. This time around, they did get shafted. I would rather have some sort of options of statting so I at least have a chance to compete with everyone else as far as stats go without having to be exactly like the rest of the absers.
I never saw you back when dodge was sick right after testmud closed down, so you probably don't remember that. Yet again another reason why your limited playing time is getting in the way of your perception.I want to also say that warriors are great bashers, rogues are great stabbers, and rangers are decent at anything they do. Just not great. At least it should work this way. But as far as saying that rogues are dodge, and hunters are either or. I dont look at it like that. The job of warriors is to bash. Job of rogues is surprise attacks, aka stab. And then rangers who can go either or, comfortably, just not as good as the originals. If someone wants to reply to this. DO not do so objectively, looking only at your char and canus about how I only have 1 char. Stop and look at it in perspective.Before this time there was very very few absers on legends. Now there is alot of them.The absers are balanced imo. The other classes I feel are not up to par with warriors though. I will post more later.
but since you asked so nicely, i'll respond to what you said: yes there are more ABSers on the list. no the problem is not with stats, i dont think. the problem is with other issues, such as OB. though you wouldnt know since you arent even high enough level to participate evenly in a PK session(is the repetition getting to you?)
ive said what i think should be changed. OB and abser hps. nuking the warrior bs and the 20 CON ranger capability should help a lot. no dodging ranger will go for the 20 CON, and no warrior will be dodge(i hope
).OB because of what i said before. things get hit too much. was getting torn up by mobs unabashed with near 200 defense.
Teh Zenrin
Last edited by Zenrin on Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lets get back to what I said. I would like to see an option to log on, and either A) stat your char normally, without being able to stat any stat above 19, and with a set maximum of stats for str dex and con, and maybe even a statsum maximum. I know last round I was 18 19 19 19 19. and B) Those who wanted to set their stats from the get go, could log in and Choose their stats with a given amount of stat points as it is now. With the max of any said stat being 20. But the 20 would be even more powerful of a step then say the difference between 18 and 19 str or dex. But should be a noticeable difference. Also make it harder to stat. Maybe give trolloc absers a -1 dex malus or -2 dex malus when statting so that the best they could get would be 18 or 17. And the same for rogues and rangers with different stats of course. For all classes actually. This way if a rogue wanted to be more balanced without the 20 dex bonus they could be. If that warrior wanted to get a more balanced statsum so he could go combo or something if he got a heron or something like that, then he could. Now this is a discussion forum, and as such keep it that way. I am glad you feel that OB is to high, or defense is to low Zen, but I am not even talking about that. I am talking strictly about the stat system, and not even how stats affect the players ob, pb or defense. Just the stat system in general. Let me spell that out. Stat system as in being how stats are obtained, be it leveling to level 5, or 10 or what the hell ever, or picking your own through a point allocation system.
Cannibal wrote:Lets get back to what I said. I would like to see an option to log on, and either A) stat your char normally, without being able to stat any stat above 19, and with a set maximum of stats for str dex and con, and maybe even a statsum maximum. I know last round I was 18 19 19 19 19. and B) Those who wanted to set their stats from the get go, could log in and Choose their stats with a given amount of stat points as it is now. With the max of any said stat being 20. But the 20 would be even more powerful of a step then say the difference between 18 and 19 str or dex. But should be a noticeable difference. Also make it harder to stat. Maybe give trolloc absers a -1 dex malus or -2 dex malus when statting so that the best they could get would be 18 or 17. And the same for rogues and rangers with different stats of course. For all classes actually. This way if a rogue wanted to be more balanced without the 20 dex bonus they could be. If that warrior wanted to get a more balanced statsum so he could go combo or something if he got a heron or something like that, then he could. Now this is a discussion forum, and as such keep it that way.
Ohhhh, I think I've established that little bit of info, and I think I've already explained why I think that's a rediculous approach. What does the stat system matter if other aspects of the game are made to let those stats be worth while? Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Should I say it again? Nothing. If 17 dex, easily obtainable by both rangers and thieves, was made good by the gear in-game, then 20 dex could just be a tad bit higher of a boost. Basically, make the difference between the two not so great, then your problem is solved. Your solution is to give the option to stat a char, but how sweet, then the whole choose your own stats thing would be pointless. who's going to bother using it? ABSers of course since their stats are easily accomplished, and those who dont have enough time on their hands to stat millions of times over. and what for? a few extra stat points.I am talking strictly about the stat system, and not even how stats affect the players ob, pb or defense. Just the stat system in general. Let me spell that out. Stat system as in being how stats are obtained, be it leveling to level 5, or 10 or what the hell ever, or picking your own through a point allocation system.
so you said warriors and thieves are fine. so your only beef is with rangers, which are fine with ABS, fine with combo, and just a bit worse than thieves with dodge. Vurek used to hand my ass to me before there were changes made, and he was a dodge ranger.
Again, your view that the only thing that matters are stats is, well, illogical.. im not sure where you're trying to get with this.
Teh Zenrin
Zenrin. That's not what he's saying.
There is a confusion between random stats and point stats.
He would like the option of random and point stats.
You say it's pointless.
I say it's not.
If I was given the option of random statting, I'd random stat, for I never had a problem with statting.
Even then, it could allow warriors to go for 19 16 19 or 19 17 19 instead of 21 19 if they chose.
I mean, all re-imping an optional self-statting system would do is allow players who are unhappy with stats to fix them themselves.
And if it's hard to stat, then screw them, they just need to work for it and once they get it hopefully they'll be happy.
I believe the idea is to offer more enjoyment with one's character's choice of thief/ranger/warrior and then the stats that come with it.
This dual system would allow both the casual player to get the 20s and the more serious player to get their own stats and enjoy whatever they so choose.
To me, working to get good stats is more fun than working to get exp, sure your both killing stupid mobs for countless times on end, but I myself enjoy the "treat" of seeing the different results of random statting. It's interesting to me to see 11 12 12 12 19 and shitty stuff and then get decent and then uber ones.
All in all, if both systems were instated, all I'd see is a positive feeling for the different player types.
There is a confusion between random stats and point stats.
He would like the option of random and point stats.
You say it's pointless.
I say it's not.
If I was given the option of random statting, I'd random stat, for I never had a problem with statting.
Even then, it could allow warriors to go for 19 16 19 or 19 17 19 instead of 21 19 if they chose.
I mean, all re-imping an optional self-statting system would do is allow players who are unhappy with stats to fix them themselves.
And if it's hard to stat, then screw them, they just need to work for it and once they get it hopefully they'll be happy.
I believe the idea is to offer more enjoyment with one's character's choice of thief/ranger/warrior and then the stats that come with it.
This dual system would allow both the casual player to get the 20s and the more serious player to get their own stats and enjoy whatever they so choose.
To me, working to get good stats is more fun than working to get exp, sure your both killing stupid mobs for countless times on end, but I myself enjoy the "treat" of seeing the different results of random statting. It's interesting to me to see 11 12 12 12 19 and shitty stuff and then get decent and then uber ones.
All in all, if both systems were instated, all I'd see is a positive feeling for the different player types.
It would allow for super stats in a world where most will settle for the on-par stats. therefore you are creating a sway in the world of balance. an abser couldnt stat any higher than what they would get with the current system. 16 dex? not going to give me anything i didnt have before.Vurek wrote: If I was given the option of random statting, I'd random stat, for I never had a problem with statting.
Even then, it could allow warriors to go for 19 16 19 or 19 17 19 instead of 21 19 if they chose.
I mean, all re-imping an optional self-statting system would do is allow players who are unhappy with stats to fix them themselves.
time... not everyone has fountains of unlimited time.And if it's hard to stat, then screw them, they just need to work for it and once they get it hopefully they'll be happy.
and unbalance.I believe the idea is to offer more enjoyment with one's character's choice of thief/ranger/warrior and then the stats that come with it.
No, this is where your problem is. This will allow the casual player to always be outdone by the crazy nolife who stats day in and day out for their perfect stats. why not just give everyone the ability to get a 19 19 18 via stat choosing?This dual system would allow both the casual player to get the 20s and the more serious player to get their own stats and enjoy whatever they so choose.
you ignore what i am saying as well. making a 15 18 17 worthwhile to play would be a better solution. right now the only reason you bother to complain is because dogde is in the ditchhole right now. were it not, im sure you wouldnt be complaining, because there would be no REASON to. it would be BALANCED regardless of stats. with your solution you want to integrate another form of elitism, yes, I said elitism, the exact same thing you were crying about in the thread about exp and "how much time it takes". seems like a similar form of a chore you're wanting to offer here to players who want to be "up there" with the rest of the superstatters, the people with unlimited time.
so yes, that is why i said that creating an option to do random statting would be pointless. the people with the superstats and time to get them would always outdo the casual player, so just like with a full-blown random statting system, that casual player will ditch their chosen stats and try to random stat so they can compete.
now the other possibility is that the extra stats wont matter. it'll just be an edge. and that is another reason why it would be pointless. why bother putting in a system of randomness when it only offers an edge?
Teh Zenrin
Teh Norum!11!!!, aka zenrin, read the fucking posts before you drivel on about shit. If stats have caps, even if people stat for the caps, they wont be superstatted. Because they could not be 18 19 18, or whatever. Imms would choose the caps. But hey who cares right, your reading level is pretty low. I guess you can't comprehend what he is saying, or what I have said over and over. I also said to make that extra 20 con, str or dex to actually be a big step over 19. So that those that go for it do not get just an "edge". But maybe that which I wrote confused you. So why don't we try again. Make it so that if you choose your stats, and take the extra points to make something 20, make it really worth it. So people will still do this for absers or that super dodging rogue. Let statting normally not yield anything super. Just stats that are balanced. No, this does not unbalance anything, as choosing stats will still be alot more powerful.
And no, if you can not tell, I do have a life. I have a wife, a kid, And a (watch out, this shit is serious!) job. Not to mention that I have Imms on muds which I have to play as well when I do have a little time between all of that stuff. So don't even try to use that excuse as a way to say something is unbalanced. Anyone with enough time on their hands will always have an edge over someone who has less time. Thats common sense. Another quality in life that you seem to lack.
And no, if you can not tell, I do have a life. I have a wife, a kid, And a (watch out, this shit is serious!) job. Not to mention that I have Imms on muds which I have to play as well when I do have a little time between all of that stuff. So don't even try to use that excuse as a way to say something is unbalanced. Anyone with enough time on their hands will always have an edge over someone who has less time. Thats common sense. Another quality in life that you seem to lack.
Uncalled for.Cannibal wrote:Teh Norum!11!!!, aka zenrin, read the **** posts before you drivel on about ****.
Uncalled for.But hey who cares right, your reading level is pretty low. I guess you can't comprehend what he is saying, or what I have said over and over.
Again your solution is pointless. I see where you're coming from, I see that it might even work, but I see also that it requires more effort than it's worth, and a good way to set it up fairly would be lacking. With your idea you want to force the rangers(the only class you claim that is screwed) to random-stat in order to get themselves stats which will never even be completely balanced as they will be overcome by the buffed up "extra stat"(20 dex, str, con). Remember thieves will be able to get that extra 20 dex easily. And since the value of the dex will be more valuable than the cost of getting it, it makes them superior dodgers to rangers.No, this does not unbalance anything, as choosing stats will still be alot more powerful.
So in reality rangers would continue to be the underdogs and would be forced to do extra work to even get to that point. They'd be unbalanaced in a negative way.
Again I will say that I believe things are fine as they are. With 15 18 17, I do perfectly fine in the world, except for problems that can be fixed with tweaking of things other than stats. Again I recommend you play the game and try things out more than occassionally before lashing out against it.
I'm glad to hear you have your life together. But anyway I wasn't even talking about you. How you could think I was is suprising as I have repeatedly said that I never see you on. I'm talking more generally... about people who have unlimited time. Nolife... It wasn't meant to be insulting when I used it. But hey, let's freak out, it'll make things better.And no, if you can not tell, I do have a life. I have a wife, a kid, And a (watch out, this **** is serious!) job. Not to mention that I have Imms on muds which I have to play as well when I do have a little time between all of that stuff. So don't even try to use that excuse as a way to say something is unbalanced.
Of course they will. But if you keep things the way they are, it is less so. Therefore you assuage the requirement of those with less time, instead of forcing them to spend more of what they lack in order to even be able to compete.Anyone with enough time on their hands will always have an edge over someone who has less time.
You're on a roll there, Cannibal.Thats common sense. Another quality in life that you seem to lack.
I'll admit, I was suprised to read that you have both immortal and family and continue to read your derogatory on a thread that should be hold a serious tone. I haven't meant to offend you, and definitely not to the point where you're trying to get back at me. Chill out and stop freaking out. Teh Zenrin
Now that you seem to be reading posts, we can get back to this being a serius convo. Not to be sarcastic, but the random stat code block is saved, if I am not mistaken, A cut and paste would have random stats back in. As well as a small block of code before that that had an if, and else thrown in could give people the option of 1 or the other. It would not be an overkill on coders. Because both systems have already been coded, one was just taken out. And can be put back in just as easy. A few lines of code written here and there could have the stat system with caps as well. Maybe OB is a bit high. But I do not believe that. I just believe that the OB on mobs is basically as it was before the abs/dodge balance so the lower defense gets beat easier then before hand when people had 330 defense. But if imms have the intention of adding better dodge and abs as time goes by, there would be no reason to change those mobs. Because then imms would have to go back and change them again as dodge was imped. I will post later on my thoughts of the HP system.
Another cheap shot by Cannibal.Cannibal wrote:Now that you seem to be reading posts, we can get back to this being a serius convo.
There was a change a while back, posted on the boards, saying that the functionality of defense VS ob was changed in a way in which dodgers were downed. Nothing changed number wise as far as anyone could tell. Immediately after, Sarg and I were crushing Vurek unbashed. So yes, OB is too high. However bash seemed to be pretty much the same.Maybe OB is a bit high. But I do not believe that. I just believe that the OB on mobs is basically as it was before the abs/dodge balance so the lower defense gets beat easier then before hand when people had 330 defense.
Agreed.But if imms have the intention of adding better dodge and abs as time goes by, there would be no reason to change those mobs. Because then imms would have to go back and change them again as dodge was imped.
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Guest
I think Cannibal's idea is really great about being able to choose wether you want to random stat or choose your stat's with limited stat points. I love this idea caus I was one of the guys who stated till he got nice stat's(Krist was 17 18 19 17 17 fc before she was deleted 
). I think this idea is very doable and would not be all that hard to balance.
And every one stop flaming each other! lol it's just a game and this is supposed to be a constructive forum not one just to argue over reatarded minute details in people's posts
). I think this idea is very doable and would not be all that hard to balance. And every one stop flaming each other! lol it's just a game and this is supposed to be a constructive forum not one just to argue over reatarded minute details in people's posts