KinslayerMUD Forums

Someone please make flee lag worth something. A few examples:

A Desolate Blighted Plains
Nothing grows in the desolate plains, though it is by no means empty. Shadow
twisted creatures wander the plains searching for flesh. Pock marks cover the
ground from age old geizers. Skeletons can be found all over, most of them
cleanly scavanged of any meat. The desolate plains grow into a great blight to
the south, while to the north a wide wield stretches between a tainted bog and
blighted brambles.
[ Exits: s w ]
You see fresh tracks of a ridden mount leaving west.
You see fresh tracks of a greyman leaving west.
A white stallion is standing here, being ridden by you.
You feel the presence of someone nearby....
A tall trolloc spy is standing here, sneaking around.
A tall, rotting tree is here, leaning to one side.
A tall, rotting tree is here, leaning to one side.

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh >
z
You try to slash *Nicotine*'s arms, but he dodges the attack.

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh - Nicotine: Battered>
2
HP:Hurt MV:Fresh - Nicotine: Battered>

* *Nicotine* panics, and attempts to flee!

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh - Nicotine: Battered>
*Nicotine* panics, and attempts to flee!

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh - Nicotine: Battered>
*Nicotine* panics, and attempts to flee!

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh - Nicotine: Battered>
- % - *Nicotine* leaves south.

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh >
Nicotine yells, 'ahhhh'



Across the Blighted Plains
Nothing grows in the desolate plains, though it is by no means empty. Shadow
twisted creatures wander the plains searching for flesh. Pock marks cover the
ground from age old geysers. Skeletons can be found all over, most of them
cleanly scavanged of any meat. The desolate plains grow into a great blight to
the south, while to the north a wide field stretches between a tainted bog and
blighted brambles.
[ Exits: n e s w ]
You see fresh tracks of a greyman leaving west.
You see fresh tracks of a ridden mount leaving north.
A white stallion is standing here, being ridden by you.
*Nicotine* is standing here.
You flee head over heels.
You try to slash *Nicotine*'s head, but he dodges the attack.

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh - Nicotine: Battered>
HP:Hurt MV:Fresh - Nicotine: Battered>

* *Nicotine* panics, and attempts to flee!

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh - Nicotine: Battered>
- % - *Nicotine* leaves north.

HP:Hurt MV:Fresh

That second one was with a DL. This is not just Nicotine, he just had a couple logs I could pull from. He and sooo many other people with supposed "max fleelag" (dum dum dum) literally CANNOT be bashed unless they fail a few flees or decide to take a coffee break and don't flee. For instance in a pk series of about 2-3 hours, I did not get one bash during someone fleelag unless they waiting until I was 3/4th of the way through the bash.

This isn't against thief class btw, just everyone. How can you flee around sooo much, and still not be able to get bashed from fleelag?

Nicotine was nowhere near max fleelag in that log.

Ok.. so he can flee around Blight for 3-4 tics with me engaging literally every other room or so, and its not max fleelag? Still, my point is the same.

i agree, fleelag needs increased. i hate when people can fail 50 flees and still get away because i dont have long enough to roll a bash. only way i land bashes when someone is running is if they walk back in the room, not because of fleelag. even when they walk back in the room, 140+ db is insanely hard to land on.

Let me clarify. Failed flees should be decreased a lot. Its bad when you can walk into a one exit room, and literally fail 10 flees in a row. Make it so flee lag builds up to something that actually makes constant fleeing a risk.

The downside to this is if you get caught by a group in a chokey zone, e.g blight, you're dead if you're up against good chasers/blockers.

i think its fine the way it is. Flee lag should never be longer than a bash timer.

So you should be able to flee around constantly, even while trying to fleestab, with no consequences what so ever?

Clearly i need to spell out the implications of what i post so everyone can understand...

yes i would love to have no consequences what so ever. In fact i think i should be flagged with automatic 1000 db on all my alts. Especially my absers. /sarcasm

My above post was being realistic. Think for one second and use your head man.

lets say flee lag maxs out at the length of a bash. That means when someone has max flee lag, every time they are engaged they could have a bash land on them. Once they are bashed after they recover, they will have to flee again and thus have another bash rolled, and potentially land, on them. Theoretically, a person would be unable to flee for an entire tic, Untill flee lag was reduced. The most prominent situation i can think of when this much flee lag accumulates occurs when someone is being chased down by a group. How many times have you, chase, fought in fd against 3-4 and had flee lag build up. You'd be the first to whine if this was changed and you died as a result of it.

From what i understand max flee lag is a few pulses under a bash. This benefits everyone. Also, two changes you advocated for: bash being upped considerably and thiefs being downed considerably have been implemented. YOU WIN!

As a result i don't play my thief anymore and play my comber who now charges and bashes 136 db.

Its sad, but the people that are most vocal seem to be the ones to affect change around here. So i guess that means i have to be vocal in order to balance out some of the absolute retarded shit that gets said insofar as changes that should be made.
exhibit a : http://www.kinslayermud.org/forums/view ... 4680#24680

edited for clarity (i posted late and half drunk last night)

Jinn wins this thread.

Jinn wrote:Its sad, but the people that are most vocal seem to be the ones to affect change around here.

Just for the record, this is false. I don't change anything without getting my own perspective on the situation first, either by playing the class/race or by following people while they PK. There is a reason for everything that is changed, usually one that I can back up mathematically and/or philosophically.

As for this thread, fleeing is difficult to change. I agree with succeeding needing to be less random, however I'd still like to keep the number of exits a room has as an important part of fleeing. A potential change might involve putting a timer on flee based on the number of exits a room has. Flee lag can be adjusted from there, perhaps in a way where if you get caught in a two exit room you can get bashed at high flee lag, but in 3 it will be close but avoidable if you react quickly and 4+ less close.

When I started here people talked about fixing dodge. In lieu of this, we have better bash and plans to make fleeing out harder.

I thought the point of dodge was to avoid being hit, not to play naked. If dodge doesn't do its job in top end gear its not worth much.

Is dodge going to get looked into? If these plans go forward, I foresee a resurgence of combo.

Wotmud had a similar shift when dodge was downed in 2001. People gradually stopped playing in full dodge as combo was upped and master bonuses made super combo possible. Later more trinks and gear had to be added to the game to make dodge playable again.

Jinn wrote:
Also, two changes you advocated for: bash being upped considerably and thiefs being downed considerably have been implemented. YOU WIN!



Its sad, but the people that are most vocal seem to be the ones to affect change around here. So I guess that means I have to be vocal in order to balance out some of the absolute retarded sh** that gets said insofar as changes that should be made.

You are absolutely hilarious. Bash being upped considerably? The top end bashing weapon wasn't even really changed at all, the only thing that happened was the bashing weapons that were complete shit, I'm talking low, low, low percent of bashing anyone in dodge, were upped to be able to compete. Having bashing weapons be more balanced is considered as having thieves downed considerably?

Do you even play an abser? Do you play against thieves with him? Do you have any idea what you're talking about in terms of bashing ability with anything other than giant steel-bound club? Even with giant-steel bound club you're looking at a 30% chance of bashing a dodger. In case you don't understand what 30% means, it's 6/20 bashes being landed, for the top end weapon.

You're going to have to actually make decent points if you want changes to be made, instead of talking out of your ass.

Jinn wrote:
lets say flee lag maxs out at the length of a bash. That means when someone has max flee lag, every time they are engaged they could have a bash land on them. Once they are bashed after they recover, they will have to flee again and thus have another bash rolled, and potentially land, on them. Theoretically, a person would be unable to flee for an entire tic, Untill flee lag was reduced. The most prominent situation I can think of when this much flee lag accumulates occurs when someone is being chased down by a group. How many times have you, chase, fought in fd against 3-4 and had flee lag build up. You'd be the first to whine if this was changed and you died as a result of it.

God forbid people have to rely on zone knowledge and reacting quickly than on spam fleeing.

Lamgwin is lying and making up numbers again. ROFL.

What an idiot.

God forbid people have to rely on zone knowledge and reacting quickly than on spam fleeing.

Didn't i just explicitly define why having a flee lag timer that is longer than a bash timer = bad?

Let me break it down even further. This one's for you champ.

Okay.

Super amazing lamgwin who has super amazing zone knowledge goes to blight and fights 10 really bad ugly trollocs, because he's super amazing and can kill everything.These really bad ugly trollocs 'block' at 'chokes' and lamgwin has super high flee lag.

OHH NOOOEEEE! The Timer was changed!!! But lamgwin is super amazing, he can't possibly die!!!...

Now even though super amazing lamgwin has super amazing zone knowledge he can't use it.

Why's that you say?

Because the bad trollocs will bash him before his flee goes through. (This part is a little complicated, and really hard to understand. so put your thinking caps on!) Ok, all set? pay attention now...

If lamgwin's flee's take this much time:
- + = * = - + = * =

and a bash timer takes this much time:
- + = * = - + = *

Which one will come first? Yes!!! that's right, the bash comes first. So super amazing lamgwin is bashed before he flees. Ok, now the bash is over and lamgwin flees again. The same thing happens!

UHHHOHHH! He can't flee. Super amazing lamgwin with super amazing zone knowledge who never dies goes bye bye.

Okay kiddies, you can take your think caps off now.

How'd I get my flee lag that high?! LOLZ THAT'S RIGHT BY FLEEING TOO FUCKING MUCH.

Fogel wrote:
As for this thread, fleeing is difficult to change. I agree with succeeding needing to be less random, however I'd still like to keep the number of exits a room has as an important part of fleeing. A potential change might involve putting a timer on flee based on the number of exits a room has. Flee lag can be adjusted from there, perhaps in a way where if you get caught in a two exit room you can get bashed at high flee lag, but in 3 it will be close but avoidable if you react quickly and 4+ less close.

The timer idea Fogel has proposed is a good idea.

I hope you absers are ready for what changes in fleelag are going to do to you. Out of all the classes, you are actually the one most likely to suffer having fleelag made longer. Not being able to flee properly and getting bashed is going to get you killed right quick, especially if you lose a mount.

Making fleelag longer than bash would be the worst possible change ever.

There are other methods of tweaking it that would change things. As it is I personally think fleelag itself is fine. Other things need to be changed before it gets looked at, and then perhaps the timers can be tweaked, etc.

But never ever allow it to be longer than bash.

Wow I thought people would be able to figure out that I didn't mean that you shouldn't be able to flee. I guess I take people's intelligence for granted. I think you shouldn't be able to flee around (like 15+) flees in a tick and still easily beat a bash timer. Plus I know Fogels not going to just imp something for continuous fleelag deaths. Maybe if one back goes through (miss or bash), then fleelag is reduced to below a bash's time.

I say this because I literally had thieves fleeing for prob 40 times each a tick while attempting to fleestab me. With that many flees I still couldnt get a bash in during their flee time.

And to Lyrak/Callisto, have you checked into the weapon changes and supposed bash changes? I have. I actually find it fair now. You still miss, the topend weapons were almost lowered imo, while the midrange and low end abs weapons were made a viable option to land more than 0%. I dodge a lot of bashes on my alts who only have 100-120db.

Wow I thought people would be able to figure out that I didn't mean that you shouldn't be able to flee. I guess I take people's intelligence for granted. I think you shouldn't be able to flee around (like 15+) flees in a tick and still easily beat a bash timer. Plus I know Fogels not going to just imp something for continuous fleelag deaths. Maybe if one back goes through (miss or bash), then fleelag is reduced to below a bash's time.

I say this because I literally had thieves fleeing for prob 40 times each a tick while attempting to fleestab me. With that many flees I still couldnt get a bash in during their flee time.

And to Lyrak/Callisto, have you checked into the weapon changes and supposed bash changes? I have. I actually find it fair now. You still miss, the topend weapons were almost lowered imo, while the midrange and low end abs weapons were made a viable option to land more than 0%. I dodge a lot of bashes on my alts who only have 100-120db.

Chase, that was the general sense I got out of Fogel's forum post. Weapons were tweaked.

My point is that dodge was or perhaps still is slated to be tweaked as well. Just as weapons needed to be fleshed out so that more than one club could bash someone in top gear/stats/agility, dodge is in need of help if the only way to survive group pk is to go in with top end gear.

Also, increasing pk penalties incurred from fleeing will make 1v1 officially unlikely as well - who will have the balls to go out solo knowing that a few blockers effectively kill your character just by virtue of hitting k dark and chasing them around on regenerating mounts. Given how many people resort to patties with even odds now, I'd put my money on people sticking together a lot. This of course is only if fleelag was seriously increased. Right now its difficult to make it out with fleelag at max, but its possible.

People who vote to make it impossible should go play rock paper scissors if they want a boring game.

I play on half a megabit dsl and I've had some scary encounters in pk where a certain White Tower channeler could flee and reenter a room before my k human could even go through. Don't get me started on how fast she fled or how many times!

I honestly attributed these experiences to her link being > my link. Are you sure that link speed doesn't have anything to do with the issues you're having with fleelag Chase?

No, I have a good link, like 35ms ping. Its game mechanics.