KinslayerMUD Forums

Considering the channie deal:

Imms, I have an idea that might be worthwhile:

Perhaps, when the mud comes back again, we "take a break from channies a while" or test them continuously.

I think all the 3 other classes are very nicely done, you get best stabbing % if thief with highest def, and warrior bonus was cool, yet weak for dodge/stab, while hunter proved better there if wanted to vary classes.

All pretty well, but, the channie issue is still there. And if everyone is going to be starting off with shitty eq, with what I hope will stay mediocre when pk ensues(not everyone having full sets, mayhaps a max of 2-3 full sets in game, thus uber bashing weapons would be rare, with maluses, hopefully eq will have these maluses) channies will tear the shit up.

Before the mud went down for changes, nearly everyone had a great bashing weapon, or a sick stabbing dagger, or full sets and all that jazz.

Nonetheless, in full sets, shimm axes were sitting ppl down 70%+, and thus the channie class was pretty much ruined solo vs a basher.

I know this myself from experience, I tore the hell out of all the solo channelers. The bash problem im sure will be fixed, making it fairly even again, like it used to be once upon a time. Dodge will become more useful, but channelers still in my opinion, are too easy to play.

If a newbie came to kinslayer, the class I'd recommend for them to play would be: a channeler.

In my opinion, it is the far most advantageous class, as they can port, check smobs, locate topend, locate other things for pk, solo smobs, exp fast as lightning(everyone does ), and it's a great character to learnt he mud.

I myself, when first coming to kinslayer a ways back, played a channeler first, and I eventually got tired of all the aliases because I was lazy. Yet I played channies later, and tore the hell out of ppl. Instead of chasing dodgers and praying i break def with high ob or bash, I would merely air scythe them dead(although my channies had 20-30 max air scythe dmgs somehow ) but it worked nonetheless.

I could chase you into murash, scythe you once, you nearly died, 2x, you better die or I did. It was too easy. You weren't safe from channelers while low, as with their easily uber def it is shocking how channelers can even die.

Some possible issues to look at in the channeler class and perhaps tweaked:


1.Current max channie stats: 16 18 16. Lets face it, 16 con on this mud, aint bad at all, 16 con can break 300 pretty easily. 18 dex on a channie is madly lovely.

I honestly don't think stat caping on channies will help much, the current caps seem fine to me, its the other things that worry me.

2.Channie pracs: I honestly think, channelers should have rougher pracs. And being as how males are just as common as females, i think war prac should cost 4+ for each, and thief 3, with ranger being 2.

I loved the 90% ride to bash, that was brilliant for it nearly stopped the channie bashing(although some ppl didn't get a reset and kept old pracs, wink wink) but perhaps other things like this could be imped to make it harder on channies.

My idea of channie pracs: should be ROUGH. They should be the most dmging class in game, while being hardest to play in my opinion.

Right now, they are like a hunter with weaves and lower stats.(stats don't mean everythign )

3.Also, Perhaps weaves could be looked at, with the current "prac fireball" it seems pretty wimpy to me, and just doesn't promote any rp or anything other than prac "nice dmg".

Maybe maluses can be looked into to pracing weaves, going one path will hinder another, similar to wotmud's system of elements and sort. Something other than prac xxx could be imped, and tested to see if it could make it more diverse to play a channie using diff weave types, while hindering from using all sorts of weave types.
(this idea is very vague i konw, and I honestly don't think it will affect channie's much, don't think this is the way to do it.)


I honestly, when the mud comes back up, and if there are no changes in the channeler class, will not play a channeler. As that would be insanely ownage to anyone who fights me.

Considering how everyone would have shitty eq, a shitty eq person vs a shitty eq channie dies. Hell a fully eq person vs a mediocre channie def still dies solo most times.

I just think the channeler really needs looking at. And as galnor said "I WANT DEATH"

I hope that death isn't going to be the same uber ownage of the olden days.

Balance is the key. Everyone please post replies on your experiences with channelers, your ways in fighting vs them(I know all the ways as I played every type of char trillions of times, but I'm sure yall can suprise me) or other things you didn't like or liked about channie class.

To me, they are piss poor easy, when honestly, the most powerful class, shouldn't be piss poor easy, in my opinion

it doesn't matter what you want to do vurek it matters what galnor wants to do. why would we change stuff for only you vurek?(responds like you responds) galnor wants death channelers bring death so therefore galnor likes channelers.


i'm sorry for the bad post but it seems that all my ideas are bashed and not even considered and all you can think about is pk pk pk and nothing about what would make this game more interesting to play. you want new players and you think pk is going to bring new players. NOT LIKELY. unless you mean new players as in new players from wotmud. let's worry more on the fact of 'lets make this game more interesting' instead of 'let's balance pk' first. both are important issues but the game being interesting is the better one. let's make this game worth something more than just to pk when people happen to get online.

and if you think you are ever going to balance channelers think again. look at wotmud its been around a lot longer and it has yet to balance channelers.

but i do have one thing to go one the spell system is completely stock and i've tried out a few muds and this is what i've seen.

spells completely custom you made your own spells their names their effects everything and it cost money and time to research them. i think the 2 spells i do have are each 50% casting ability because of wearing armor. and they are easy spells. granted i don't have the skill 'knowledge arcana' which really helps casting % and armored casting but it was 50% for 2 spells that are a must for a melee character such as myself.

i also checked out a mud where you had to find different people that would teach you different words. combinations of words would let you make a spell.

Ok the idea I have for channelers:

Lets say there are 3 places to prac for a channeler. one for non-tower channelers, one for tower channelers, another for male channelers. You practice the 5 *weavethings* there, spirit, fire, earth, water and that other one. now this is where it different from wotmud. Let's have it that there are individual aes sedai that can't be located traveling all around the world and they can all teach you their own abilities.

Also another thing: more variety for channelers. Let's get away from the stock weaves and get more into our own sort of weaves. Osis made a great topic on it somewhere. Let's make more status effecting weaves(like say lets make a weave that can up hitpoints for a certain amount of time like by 50? or something that increases parry or something that decreases ob only or something that could make you have easily escape by lets say they slip and fall when they spam rooms. call it slippery feet or something. lets make it so you can ward items. or that you could have an item that you can locate without using any sps. like give a gold crown to vurek and then he dies and i can locate the guy who has the crown. or the ability to make *angreal. like make a long thin wand that can has 2 charges of fireball on it. a non channeler gets their hand on it and bam evens the playing feel don't you think?

Uh... Trin, you do realize ofcourse that PK is, and will be for a long time to come (if not always) the heart of this mud, right? And therefore before we go on adding custom spells or whatever, PK needs to be balanced. How would a mud look with 10000 features that none of which were balanced?

Anyway, on to the issue:

-Channies are easy to play

-Channie stat caps are fine, but getting the max stats should be harder: so people will go for less than the best

-How about if channies get to choose 2 weave types to use or something like that, and so they can only use weaves from those types?

Edit:
Oh, and Trin, we know that this is Galnor's mud and everything, but since when are suggestions not welcome, eh?

Trin bro, I wasn't bashing any of your posts about the other ideas, I just stated my opinion on how those suggestions would be fine, but not necessarily the most important thing.

I don't want to do any of these things, they are all suggestions.

And I was asking for other suggestions so that the Imms could better understand the channeler class, if they are not fully aware of it at the moment(which im sure they are, but some things can be missed as I'm sure I missed several things)

Let's not be bitter here bro, and I most definately would like the pk balanced before other things are added .

That idea of rods sounds pretty cool, could all have the same timers and such, and would be used very rarely I'm sure.

And also, I don't think their are "channeler hps", I think the con affects just all class types so we all get decent hps(except for the warrior variable I think). So perhaps whereas warrior gets % for higher rolls or something along that lines, mayhaps It'd be a good idea to have the same way with channelers getting a higher % of lower rolls.

Again, just a suggestion, would be glad to here more insight, please do not turn this into a flame fest, we are all friends here.

i'm just saying balancing pk of all things is going to be DIFFICULT. very much so. especially for one coder. look at wotmud they haven't done it yet. look at all the other pk muds out there.

the only one i have seen which is even close to balanced is demon wars. there's always an anti-build to everything.

and who knows maybe this eqwipe will help it.

and i'm not saying 10000 features with none balanced just something some newbies would find interesting. little things could be good as well like player houses, player stores, government, bloodlines, etc. etc.

How about when making a channeler, let them choose 2 elements they are proficient in, and the rest cost more to prac. So they choose fire and air. Fireball is cheap to prac, travel cost 2, and everything else cost 3 to prac that doesnt use those 2 elements. Would at least be more diverse as far as practicing goes. Would require some time to make it so each weave has elements attached to it but I think it would help in the long run in balancing out those characters. And as well could make spell casting from their elements normal sp cost, and make it cost more from non-proficient elements. Maybe add a few spells that are specific to only 1 element, sort of like air scythe, and flamestrike from wotmud. Low damage, short timer spells, that aren't that difficult to practice. And then fireball could contain up to 3 elements so that noone gets to practice it outright easily. Travel as well could be 3 elements. Hopefully easily understood. Although this could take alot of coding hours and such, it would be a great start in my opinion to balancing channelers. As is now, My channie had +90% in almost 10 spells, and a decent % in all kinds of other spells. Of course if there were more weaves to choose from, this would help. Maybe more diverse weaves. But every element I dont think should have a version of air scythe, or fireball, because that would pretty much negate the whole element thing making it somewhat harder on channelers. Would require more input, and its only my opinion, but we can see where it goes in this discussion. And yes, I did borrow this idea from other muds, and growler who suggested 2 element.s

I like that canni, would take work(wink imms) but that was what I was trying to get to.

How to diversify the channie class, and that sounds great, "specializing" in certain types of elements.

Of course, it could be set up so that when you get a prac reset, they could choose which to specialize in, so as to not keep them the same way forever.

Sounds interesting, anyone else?

as long as there is something to do when noone else is on then I'll be happy.

selling houses at very high prices would do it

an example

house 1 door (exit) - $10,000,000
guard - $500,000 initial contract fee and $10,000 per day wages

so not only do we have to save for the home but also once we have it and our mobs we have to work on a daily, weekly or monthly basis to keep them.

another idea - pay to restring normal equipment, once again the prices would have to be very high.


these simple ideas would take imm interaction, really nothing to hard code (except for the monthly wage thing) and would agive players something to do beyond pk.

Something I've seen at a few other muds, use cash or quest points to modify weapons and/or eq to make it non lootable, maybe limit each player to one piece and maybe along with the flag you get to restring the weapon or piece of eq.

thus changing

a clear curved dagger

(kept) a clear curved dagger

(kept) some really cool description of a dagger

who wouldnt pay dearly so that rare weapon could never be looted again.

of course unique's could never be flagged as such.

A cool idea Aj, but how about if it'll only work once? We don't want the same guy running around with a Heron forever...

well uniques and rares would not be included in this. like if you want to keep a shimmering axe. or a claymore or something.

I definitely agree with Trin.

It would probably help to get things noticed/implemented if topics were actually on topic. This starts off as a channeler thread, and digressed into something completely different and unrelated to channelers. Noone is going to take any post in these threads real serious if we cant even keep to a topic without changing the subject every time.

Was wondering what happened to the channeler talk

no offense but i doubt no matter how we put it nothing will be implemented that we ask for.

At the risk of being thought an idiot by everyone for staying off-topic...

Trin, the basis of every good MUD is a certain amount of player input. Believe it or not, Galnor does listen to us. He may not run around patting us on our collective backs for the ideas we spawn, but he does read our posts, and he does listen to us. ( to a certain extent, knock on wood )

Chill out man


[/offtopic]

sorry that my, what, year and a half of being here of offering ideas and suggestions i have had one suggestion of mine(or anyones for that matter) taken. and that was to decrease ob because dodge was getting its arse kicked when i first started.
and yea maybe they are maybe galnor codes 24/7 and puts it into play without anyone knowing it but it'd be good to get an update on what's happening instead of left in the dark to think of what's happening for ourselves.

For now on, If i notice any topic straying, or any doubts and things that could reasonably be requested and or informed towards Imms, I will do it.

I'm not scolding you trin, I'm using you as an example.

I think we are all reasonable people, I understand your feelings completely, but, if one does not stand up and try to make reasonable changes or inform the people who can make changes or be informed, well....hot dog.

I know you have tried in the past, I know you will keep on truckin, for that's what we must do.

And right now, reading this, I am certain Trin you are thinking I am a complete hypocrite, and justly, you are right. We are all hypocrites, but, with good reason, we can all try our best to stray from that course, althought it will bite us again and again.

I'm suggesting and asking, that we use the "ask the imm's" forum, that we make great posts in general, or anything that may be discussed, and looked on by Imms.

To me, my post right now is pointless, it's common sense, and I currently lost my train of thought.

Nonetheless, let's all treat each other decently, let's forget the things that happened in the past, and hell, lets start anew.

I'm not treating anyone bad or unfairly. i'm saying what i think and my own opinion and what i have noticed. i am not pointing fingers at anyone. not saying it's anyone's fault or saying he did this or he did that. i am making a statement of what i have seen in the past.

of course proving me wrong with this new update would be the best way to shut me up.

For all fairness for the rest of us, who actually would like to see imms pay attention to our post, keep the topics on TOPIC. Imms dont want to read drivel, neither does the rest of us, make your own topics for your ideas, or post them in a topic that hosts the same ideas. Instead of hijacking perfectly nice topics, like this one was.

Anyone have anything to add on what they have seen/played as a channeler?

I honestly forgot how sick channelers are.

I only remembered because when I started playing ds again(instead of ls as I played ls alot more this round) at the end I remembered what it was like to get bashed by one lucky bash, and then die in that one bash, or get an insane amount of dmg dealt to you. Abs or not(worse to even be abs sometimes, being as your gettin bashed pretty much 100%)

I would LOVE some IMM feedback on this, if they are looking at them, or if they aggree with what has been said/discussed, if they see channelers as problems if played to their full extent...etc.


Channelers as I see it right now--->Most diverse class: 1. Pracs(easy), 2.weaves 3.only lightside...

DS didn't have the power to combat them as good this round, sure they might die in one bash on a patty, but no channeler...NOT one channeler dies in one bash from healthy with all absers on her, or 1 basher with all sblades...even max engage.

DS didn't have the insane master dagger dmg, thus, they couldn't kill dodgers(reknown channies) to die in one bash, whereas any dser can die in one bash to 2-3 channies.

Naturally, a common response to this problem---->don't get bashed.

Well, that is very true, I look at old borgg logs, and in full abs i prided myself on only getting bashed 2x out of 3 hours, which honestly, that is pure paranoia. And of course, those 2x I do get bashed, nearly died/or did die.


Also, another response to the problem of dmg between the races--->not have ds be 80%+ stab.

So true, but, is utter bullshit in the end. 1 Basher with 3-(4,can't remember max engage) stabbers with attack will do more dmg than 4 bashers. Abs weapons were skewed this round, absolutely pathetic dmg wise.


The idea is not to kill any person in one bash, to me, that is plain piss poor boring and unskillful, but, when it was so easy to flee this round..and other variables, relying on one bash usually only did the trick. And on ls that worked soooo much easier.


I would enjoy to hear any ideas on how to respectably "down channelers", but still make them fun/skillful all the same.

And, if nothing happens, well, as I suppose it might, I WILL play channelers hard core this round, and actually make a fit about it, show how untimely uber they are time and time again until something happens, for I was too lazy the previous rounds, although I did learn alot about channelers with my mc/fc.

Please disregard posts that have nothing to with this topic, any ideas/solutions/criticism would be appreciated.

Well, we're working on re-doing the practices of channelers. I believe that is the key to where the problem is. They're too easy to level up and practice with. So if you guys have some feedback on that, then feel free to give it.

channeler pracs were too easily maxed out, 6pracs, 7 on a bad int character and each spell was maxed, there was no hard gradient for the top 10% of pracs.
I had a stupid amount of different weaves all at the same time.(more weaves would be good actually, just not able to have them all at once, needing to actually sacrifice in some areas to gain in others).

the requirements of each element, as wotmud and other similar themed muds before getting certain spells could be nice.

a bit of coding, but a few loose ideas i had along those lines. (values to be balanced, just using for examples)

males pracing fire and earth easier, females practicing air and water easier.

pracs in fire lower pracs in water, pracs in water lower pracs in fire, same with air and earth.
eg, prac fire and gain 30% and lose 6%(20% of the gain) water

or eg. prac fire up to 90%, then 1 prac of water you lose 10% of current fire practiced, rather than a % of the water gained.
practicing spirit could lose much lower % in everything else.

CHANNLERS ARE FINE ATM.

Not are the Pracs tight for channlers, but also even if i would go stabby or bash. Even with the right pracs i get some sort of malus. On engel i land like 1/20 stabs i often even brick on resting guys.

Of course every Class has its bonuses against certain other Classes or its maluses.

If Darkside wouldnt be 99.999% stabbers then maybe you guys would stop whinning about channelers cause alot of them will die in a few bashs. Of course the downing of abs weapons kinda makes it harder now.

Channelers also dont realy have any unqiue item they can get, Granted they can get heron : they dont have the pracs to go dodge bash, Or Glassdagger/knife but they cant land any stabs.

If Galnor still feels like he should down channelers i would recommend a differnt system than all the other muds have. To keep an original idea

Instead of making pracs harder after specializing in certain areas you could change it to : SP Amount used per weave / Damage reduction/increation.

So i could practice all the weaves normaly and say i have 10 talent points and would put them all into fireball i would have a cheap/high damage fireball but all my other weaves would not only be most expensive but also bad damage or bad heals/fails. Maybe Armor could have a range so that the armor made by someone specialized in a differnt talent would be near to worthless. Maybe mixing the talent points with Lighuxes idea of having percentage in fire would down ice or water or whatever.


a little more feed back :

"DS didn't have the power to combat them as good this round, sure they might die in one bash on a patty, but no channeler...NOT one channeler dies in one bash from healthy with all absers on her, or 1 basher with all sblades...even max engage. " = that is complete bullshit unless the channeler is ither Wvd or in abs. Short bladers do Frags. 3 short bladers = 12 attacks +2 from the basher. Persuming a frag is 20+ thats 240 damage from the sbladers and maybe another 30-35 from the abser, 270ish.
Now im pretty sure a frag is more than 40 but 270 is enough to get most channelers crit or low beat.

While every class has there bonuses a channelers bonus is to deal alot of damage in minnimal time. The one thing that could be done to keep the balance would be down the SP regeneration especialy the sleeping ones or change Max SP.

While in my veiw the class is fine atm the problem is the same as darkside has. The majority of LS are channelers, to disencourage this maybe a sort of COL clan should be implemented. Mcs should be hunted.

unclanned channelers could also be changed to a sort of Channeler Adept class: meaning that they have the ability to weave, but as long as they join no sort of clan where they can study the way of wheel or what ever its called (never raed the book), they could have Lowsp,better stats,less Spell pracs. Instead of making there weaves there primay weapon and there staff/dagger or what ever there praced in secondary it would be the other way round. Using there 'talent' to weave more as a small helper. Then when channelers start moving up the ranks they spend more time in studying the arts of Spellcasting and less into physical stats lowering there physical abilities and raising there spellcasting abilitys. Making channelers who wish to dish out high damage threw weave casting alot harder to get.

RP reasoning would also enforce that

Another downside of channelers is that the male channelers unless they get into the blacktower have nowhere to advance there character. They dont get qp or anything so it kinda makes them borring.

Channelers wont be doing the tearing up at the beginning cause its pretty hard to level them up naked, bashers will be tearing everyone up at the beginning.

sorry that my, what, year and a half of being here of offering ideas and suggestions i have had one suggestion of mine(or anyones for that matter) taken.

This is completely and utterly wrong. Stuff used to change every day around here because of player input. Its why we had the idea command.