KinslayerMUD Forums

Have you ever stopped to think about what bonus and malus each race has?
I have, so sit back and take a journey with me into the exiting world of balance!


darkside

bonuses
1. night vision
2. doesn't have to ride horses
3. db bonus because they don't have to ride
4. don't have to dismount to enter any room
5. high move regeneration
6. smells
7. free notice
8. can eventually make master
9. can eventually become a fade
10. troll spears rock hard with high dmg, ob, pb, weight, and some are 2 handed (meaning free pb)
2. can sneak + skewer
3. can skewer in all rooms

maluses
1. ob malus from not riding
2. can't stack moves (horses)


lightside

bonuses
1. ob bonus from riding
2. can stack moves (horses)
3. can eventually make master

maluses
1. db malus from riding
2. dependant on a light source
3. must dismount to enter many rooms
4. must lead moves (horses)
5. thieves must be dismounted to use their main skill
6. low move regeneration
7. low moves
8. costly notice
9. human lances are sup par with low ob, pb, dmg, and weight
10. must be mounted to charge
11. can not sneak + charge

I'm sure I missed a few but I think you get the point, darkside is where it's at these days! I don't think everyone chooses to
play a troll simply because it's the cool thing to do, ds is simply the easier side of the two to play.

let me break it down,
Lightside due to ride has an ob bonus, a db malus, and limited mvs thus humans make better agressive abs warriors than thieves, while trolls have an ob malus, db bonus, and are always on foot thus making them better defensive thieves and dodgers. This is completely backwards, I have always pictured the horde as a bunch of huge beast in full armor wielding tree trunks, and humans as pansy little pink things wearing light armor and being better at dodging and parry.

At the moment I think at character creation when you come to the part to choose your race you should see the following.


Select a race:
[H]uman *FOR EXPERIENCED PLAYERS ONLY*
[T]rolloc


I feel people are shying away from lightside these days simply because it is a damn hard race to play, I have died more in the last month playing ls than I ever died playing darkside. Now don't let the good pkers fool you, chase, trin, and most of our highbie immortals make it look easy but it sure in the hell isn't.

A few ideas to balance the races out

1. get rid of ds free notice, this would actually help all thieves out here.
2. get rid of smells and make it practicable for both races, something for rangers, but keep
pracs as they are. thus if someone wants to smell they will have to sacrifice. The higher % you prac the more smells you can pickup.
3. get rid of ride bonus and malus (will make more sense when you read my new ob bonus idea)
4. Place better horses at horse loads up north, trolls dont get a move malus when they come south into human lands yet humans have one horse load north of gap and it loads grays.
5. place a horse load between keep and stronghold, possibly in or around blight tower,and place one north of keep around the ruined village.

In conclusion make ls the easier side to play, ds should be harder and for the experienced player because they have more to gain, ls can only make master while ds players can eventually become fades.

though you make some very good points and a lot of your ideas will be taken into consideration I'm sure, I think once channelers come in a lot more people will be playing LS

you forgot one bonus to humans:
free notice while riding


maybe make human thieves get free notice?

newest one is trolls can skewer in any room using sneak but humans are limited to ridable rooms and of course cant sneak while riding.

you say humans have OB bonus so they make better abs warriors? ur forgeting that trollocs can have 21 strength while human maximum is 20.

+ i thought lightside can become blademaster/ta'veren?

Hrmm, good point Musashi... I say we implement some sort of ta'veren list separate from the Legends list... it won't have anything to do with weave points, and in fact, I have no idea what it would do, but it would be human-only!

Do blade masters get no type of bonus as fades besides fading and fear? And as Koradin said, you guys will be able to channel soon enough. Also, having sneak and skewer isnt that useful because they cant see you ENTER but as soon as you put skewer command in they see XXX begins charging at you. Kind of a give away as to what you are doing... It should stay the same as far as races go. Because you may think that trolls are so uber because of their moves etc but when it comes time to chase a low opponent and you guys have been fighting while human has been mounted. The troll is pretty much screwed according to chasing after the human because he is already worn whereas human can hop on another horse and hes FM. Lights- how hard is it really to buy a lantern or a lightstick at that since we have money source now..not hard at all. What I do think would be beneficial to the human race most importantly thieves is possibly a moves bonus for any new thief character that is made due to the fact that they cannot stab while mounted and often will need to dismount for majority of a fight especially against another stabber.

you forgot one bonus to humans:
free notice while riding

is obsolete. trolls have free notice all the time so it just stops the malus we have while riding.

trolls outrun humans all the time. much more than vice versa. today me and 2 others were pking akrabbim caemlyn and he ran from caemlyn to fd and i switched about 4 horses keeping up with him. other people fell behind. thankfull at fd it ended up being everyone, including akrabbim, being hagged but we finally got him.

if you see xxx begins charging you and you didn't see them enter your room you can panic a little. it happened a few times with razhak while i was exping in illian on wotmud. damn shadow stallions have sneak.

notice isnt free on horses, it uses horse moves..

I've seen humans with stacked horses hagg out multiple trollocs many, many times. I also haven't died from lack of moves on a human in a long time. Good horse usage is much better than having a large move pool.

While horse stacking is and always will be a viable option who here spends 30 minutes before pk (if there isn't any pk) in preperation?

Humans horse hop down south because there are plenty of horse loads and mainly because other players throughout the day have moved horses onto roads and out of the cities, you don't find this up north because any self respecting troll will kill every horse he can. So this leads humans who are pking or chasing n of fd with 1 horse load of grays sw of gap, 1 load of whites at gap patty, and 1 load of grays like 10 rooms from the white load. Of course by the time pk has drifted north these loads possibly with the exception of gap are dead.

Another notable point is warhorses are sold now, and while affordable not affordable enough to stack and while I have money on some alts I seriously dont want to dish out 1/4 - 1/2 a gold a day for pk.

There's 4 horse loads north of FD and several more from FM to FD. It doesn't take more than 5 minutes to stash more on your way north.

As someone who effectively plays a human thief, I think I can safely say that human moves are nothing to worry about.

as a troll it is easy to get around horse stacking. killing the horses is alll too easy to do and moving pk away from the stacked horses is just as easy. while you might bring an extra horse to fd from fm or to gap from fd you get up to blight and there are no extra horses and not many people stack horses up in blight. i've tried before usually trolls see human tracks and ask themselves wtf were they doing and kill horses befoer going down to pk.

I dont disagree with you lithium but Trin makes some valid points, you dont die much lith because you dont play with total abandonment as I do on my ls chars, I love bringing pk to blight, stone rd, blighted tower even though I know it will end the same as always, trolls will follow tracks and find my stashed horses, kill them, and come for me. Stone road zone I love but there are not any places to hide a horse. there are a few decent spots in blight and ne of keep but it's all to simple for a troll to track your movements and find the hidden horses.

This is where cover tracks would come in handy, to bad unless your abs your prac starved as is!

only pk i ever get is if i go al the way to gk or check out the mine east GK... n ohorses around there, and while i could stack horses i can never be bothered..

You guys make it sound like trolls exist to seek out and destroy horses. I know when Im going somewhere and i see a horse I just leave it unless I need meat immediately or something. But other than that I just leave horses so that I may get a chance of pk. And I barely see humans in gap even unless they run there from FD to gpat other than that humans I have pked recently were all in FD or around there. With the exception of Aj going to help out Musashi w of NK in blighted tower which was a good while ago.

pk doesn't happen gap because it's such a far way from safety. and it's chokey if people know how to use the chokes. if there was a safe place for humans to go to from gap than pk would happen there. (for trolls a really safe place is inner keep in fd even if it's ls)

I don't know anyone who goes out of their way to kill horses. The only time I ever see trollocs killing horses is when someone is running ridiculous loops and repeatedly hagging them out; avoid this, and mostly everyone will leave them alive.

I do! I won't pass up a horse load, I might leave grays and mares alive but not anything better. My main points are not to get horse loads upped, or their moves or anything of the sort, I was only trying to point out there are many small inbalancing factor between the two races making trolls the more efficient killer.

All I'm asking,

1. admit trolls are the superior character and humans have it harder.
2. kick humans a bone or two, give us something, anything.

How about giving grays the ability to sneak while ridden, something small but making the human race unique beyond the negative realm.

change/% that after maybe using a ter┬┤angrela that you become a wilder channeler! kkeep your normal pracs + 50 sp or something!

That would just be plain dumb Musashi.

somehow my reply never gets posted, or is an imm always deleting it?

Well, yes, when you post vulgar insults like that, we're going to delete it. Sorry. Use mails if you really must insist on getting your message across.

update to the lack of race balance

humans

1. human lances are sup par with low ob, pb, dmg, and weight
2. must be mounted to charge
3. can not sneak + charge

trolls

1. troll spears rock hard with high dmg, ob, pb, weight, and some are 2 handed (meaning free pb)
2. can sneak + skewer
3. can Skewer in all rooms

You also forget all the other bonuses. Like one more strength being a better bonus than mounted ob(for people that have 21 str). and practices being more insufficient on ls(especially on a dodge basher) because you have to practice ride.

Horses being so easily stabbed and such is another. Plus they take more effort and time to put into position for pk instead of trolls moves which take no effort for pre-pk. Especially if the troll decided to, as preparation for pk, go around killing all horses he(or she) finds.

For the love of god balance the races already!

My biggest pet peave is humans having to waste pracs for ride then getting only 2 lines of autotrack while mounted, and the stupid db malus from ride.

LS is the official abs side while ds is pro dodgers.