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I wouldnt say the yew spear was rediculously overpowered. The charge on it landed what, 1/10 if it was a good day. I remember test charges on people when it first came out and I tested it the other day too. Both times I landed on 1/11. Not that sick and 'overpowered' when trolls let me brick on them to get in a bash on me.

I swear Erica only started that sleep-charging thing because I got Nicotine with it so many times!

The yew spear wasn't overpowered because you could land charges with it. The weapon was overpowered because you pulled sick defense, had great ob, had easy pracs, and had good damage.

lol, just thinking of charge I was recalling first time i pked on a warrior(Laesar) at all, then i recalled osis saying the only person who ever killed him solo was Kison, first time i pked on a warrior, (full abs shim axe and a spear of blackened steel) i killed him and another abs troll and sent another running home from north of fd. No one liked spear of blackened steel and it got thrown on ground at aiel often cause not great damage, it had awesome landing rate though.

Spears landing calculations did get changed a lot from what they were originally.
Yew spear originally bashed like a shim axe, had better damage and more defence than a mahogany staff.
Maplewood started out as a very powerful rare also, before some imm screwed up and started loading them a shit load forcing them to be downed.(Growlers master was based off maplewood before it got downed, his master never changed to match the downing)

Axxey Axxye Lighuxe Arithon Nadir Detritus Laesar Leasar Lysaer Bartimaeus Davien Gfdg Eltargrim Khorblimi
hmm... is bound to be a few others I can't recall off the top of my head, is at least another couple trolls. 7+ channelers, mostly all with different prac setups.

Was also amusing yet felt sorry for the trolloc I had to use as an example to get sleep changed
Bashed him, fled, came back in room and slept him while he was bashed then stabbed him dead with a short dagger to prove how stupidly abusable it was.
Sleeping constant fleestabbers was also fun for a while.
Or course so was Arithon getting sleep stabbed by Elathia in my smob kit and losing perfect dodge set, scythe and crystal shield along with uno chain and full abs which she transfered to dark side 5mins later and got zapped a wopping 30levels of throwaway character for.

I have all the books (including the big white book and the prequel), so when I get the time, I'll have a lot of imput.

I liked the idea of having a certain amount of "Affinity Points" to spend on various elements... maybe it could go like this:

Male:
Fire- 1 point
Earth- 1 point
Spirit- 1 point
Air- 2 points
Water- 2 points

Female:
Fire- 2 points
Earth- 2 points
Spirit- 1 point
Air- 1 point
Water- 1 point

Men are traditionally strongest in Earth and Fire, while women are strongest in Air and Water. Strength in Spirit is equal between the two, as per the books.

The more points invested in an Attribute, the more damage/less sps weaves of that element would take. A Fireball (pure Fire) is easy enough to specialize in, but calling a low-cost Lightning Bolt (Air, Fire, Spirit unless I'm mistaken) would be considerably more difficult.

I gotta run to my ECON 2301 class now, will post more later.

Cool Dalar, really appreciate something like that, I completey forgot book used elements.

Just glanced at a random page and healing requires several different types of weaves intertwined and lovely stuff like that.

Mayhaps(this would require a ton of coding I'm sure) there could be practices that are already readily defined--->fireball and other classic weaves, but(hopefully cool thing to really make channelers fun) somehow coding could come in and make it so that a channeler can practice intermixing weaves to make different combinations...shrug.

Instead of doing a normal fireball, could mix some of the elements of lightning into it, and the channeler "makes their own weave"(perhaps similar to renaming weapons) and could call it something.

Hell, come to think of it, perhaps when fc's reach Aes Sedai, they can spend time(real time now, working supposedly for that final test to create their own weave) and it could be their "master bonus" to have a certain weave type or mixture.

It's very vague, but also maybe channelers could specialize more in certain elements when reaching AS, or other twerps.


I'm not 100% sure at what I'm hitting at, it's very very sketchy, but what I'm attempting to hit as is that possibly channelers could diversify themselves from other channelers by renaming weaves or mixing weaves and coming up with diff combos(naturally would all have to be tested and balanced , so we don't have znig and fball combining dmg, or scythe timer with fball dmg heh )

Would be nasty coding, but that might be another suggestion, of course while this would add variety, they should still be very hard put to get xxxx.

And I'm pretty sure I semi-repeated what was said in earlier pages a month ago, someone said something like this..smirk...sry if so

Axxey wrote:Growler was also not that great channie vs channie when he didn't have stupidly overpowered master weapon bringing bash into equation.

*gasp*!
Well... actually, you've got it right. But that is to be expected when for 2 years I play only a troll stabber (almost only) and suddenly I have a "human" charging/bashing channie

So the conclusion is that when I was DL, all you abs guys shouldn't have run away from me at the time! (*poke* Rocin )

We had a discussion on the Immortal Discussions Board and people threw out some ideas. However none of them were that great and it seems I came to the same conclusion as Dalar.

No more replies though so I'd like to hear more on what you have to say.

I wouldnt go with damage AND sps reduction tied to the same thing.

You could if you wanted have sps cost tied to attributes and then have much much steeper spell practices that increase damage, so practice fireball and when hit 50 or 70(some much lower value than 90) pracs taper off to 1%(or much lower faster reductions all round) gains for each prac spent in them.

Failing weaves is just the most irritating thing ever, would far prefer doign shitty damage all the time to failing sometimes.


OR link damage with sps increase as prac too high of something you lose efficiency.
Avoid double positives where you can. A big positive with a lesser negative works better.

dalar said exsactly the same thing i died about 2 pages back....

Engel wrote:dalar said exsactly the same thing i died about 2 pages back....

You're right. That's probably where I origionally got the idea from.8)

SCORE!

From "The World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time" (henceforth referred to as "the big white book"):

Page 18 wrote: Channeling draws on threads of the One Power and uses them singly or in combination in a weave designed to accomplish the particular task at hand. There are five different threads to the One Power, known as the Five Powers. They are named according to the elements their energies manipulate: Earth, Air (sometimes called Wind), Fire, Water, and Spirit. In many cases only one of the Powers is required to accomplish a task. A weave of Fire alone will light a candle or control a fire. But certain tasks necessitate the weaving of flows in more than one of the Five Powers. For instance, one who wishes to affect the weather must weave a flow combining Air, Water, and Spirit.

Anyone who can channel usually has a greater degree of strength with at least one or two of the Powers, yet they may lack any particular ability at all with some of the others. For example, someone strong in Wind may be all but unable to weave Fire, or may be weak in Earth but equally strong in Spirit and Air. Some few rare individuals have been found to be very strong in as many as three, or in very rare cases four, of the Powers. But since the Age of Legends no one has had great strength in all five. Even then, such individuals were very rare.

Page 19 wrote:Men usually exhibited greater ability with Earth and Fire while women more often excelled in the use of Water and/or Air. Equal numbers of men and women were strong in the use of Spirit. There were, of course, exceptions, but they were rare enough that EArth and Fire came to be regarded as male powers, while Air and Water were considered female powers. Even today women usually exhibit their greatest strength in Air or Water, or both.

More to follow later, if needed.

Yah, so hopefully imm's can get a cool system going like that.

Axxey, I completely COMPLETELY agree about failing weaves. It's fuckin stupid. It makes complete sense, very very much sense, but is the stupidest thing ever.

Sure, stabbers brick, chargers brick, and bashers miss bashes, and this is a very similar thing. But, if a channeler "loses trace of the flows" something bad is going to happen.

A channeler isn't(might not, high % they can't) gonna be able to control the weave they just lost control of(was in process of unleashing), so there's no way in hell the weave is gonna dissipate unless she's reallly lucky.

So I really would be interested in some ideas with changes to failing weaves. Possibly mistargetting? or cut dmg of weave to 10% and it hits everyone in room?

ie:

You begin to weave the flows(fball)

+
_
/
.
etc...

You lost your concentration, and suddenly fire sprays into the air!

You feel your skin tinge!
*Borgg* gasps in pain!
*Cannibal* gasps in pain!
Clark gasps in pain!



So, I suggest instead of failing weaves(still could be an absolutely TINY % of failing weaves, as it does make sense) instead we keep same % failure but add in some interesting features like:

1. Hittin everyone in room(mobs too i guess, though that'd be terrible with ponies
2. 2x(any variable to be decided) sp drain, but still does weave
3. perhaps 1 round of "bash" on the channeler(she messed up her weave so bad it went through, but really hurt her), she is "sitting" from the mess she made in her head, could make that increase dmg dealt, or keep it same, or dmg could be lowered, shrug...(also could lose a massive amount of defense instead of sitting round, although sitting makes sense, but this way you could still get bashed...)
4. Accidently casts another weave
5. Normal cost of weave, but fireball does a % dmg instead of normal dmg

These are just a few possibilities, what do ya'll think? Naturally this wouldn't go out of hand, failing weaves happened maybe 1-2 times in a pk session with my channelers, of course I always had 19 wil, don't konw if it's worse for lower wil. Also, these things would only happen with current failing weave %, which I think is pretty reasonable, but piss poor annoying. I seemed to fail scythes alot more disengaged too.

AND


Dun

Dun dun.

I think these things could be applied to when channeling on targets your not engaged on....

I honestly think that might balance out the bullshit of channeling on anyone in room, so you could still channel on anyone in room, BUT your % of "failing weave, ie 5 things listed above and other suggestions" would drastically go up.

So instead of failing weaves 5%, you'd fail them 50% (don't know how high this would be, would have to be tested) and then do dmg to everyone in room or sp drain or bash yourself a round....etc.

Really think that might be a fix to channelers targetting anyone in room with no cost to themselves/others.

Naturally, all these thigns would be tested, this is a very general idea, but I really think with balanced % of failures and % selections of different occurences, this might just work.

And, I'd like some comments/criticisms, as my last idea about fade was cool, but so utterly pointless and easily abused that I didn't see it.

So let at it !

Save targeting anyone/everyone in room for MCs and taint.

The idea of using up double sps instead of failed weaves is quite nice as sp usage is something that will need to be balanced also.
In last round for example most channelers would use air scythe and run out of sps before killing the opponents if they were solo and didn't release for regen some.
A fast finishing weave type thing like air scythe/flame strike idea would be good to use reasonably high sps cost so it wouldn't be a staple weave for usage all the time.

with flee lag as it was there were no other dmg weaves someone could do against an opponent.

Quoting myself since I had some ideas that were pretty close to all of this. Will add more quotes from this thread shortly on channie ideas that were thrown around a month ago that still are great ideas, and might have been forgotten. Growler had some great ideas, as well as Vurek and someone else I cant remember.

Cannibal wrote:How about when making a channeler, let them choose 2 elements they are proficient in, and the rest cost more to prac. So they choose fire and air. Fireball is cheap to prac, travel cost 2, and everything else cost 3 to prac that doesnt use those 2 elements. Would at least be more diverse as far as practicing goes. Would require some time to make it so each weave has elements attached to it but I think it would help in the long run in balancing out those characters. And as well could make spell casting from their elements normal sp cost, and make it cost more from non-proficient elements. Maybe add a few spells that are specific to only 1 element, sort of like air scythe, and flamestrike from wotmud. Low damage, short timer spells, that aren't that difficult to practice. And then fireball could contain up to 3 elements so that noone gets to practice it outright easily. Travel as well could be 3 elements. Hopefully easily understood. Although this could take alot of coding hours and such, it would be a great start in my opinion to balancing channelers. As is now, My channie had +90% in almost 10 spells, and a decent % in all kinds of other spells. Of course if there were more weaves to choose from, this would help. Maybe more diverse weaves. But every element I dont think should have a version of air scythe, or fireball, because that would pretty much negate the whole element thing making it somewhat harder on channelers. Would require more input, and its only my opinion, but we can see where it goes in this discussion. And yes, I did borrow this idea from other muds, and growler who suggested 2 element.s

maybe you could make it doing a variaty of things , for instances, Fireballs could blowup to early into the casters face, or you could just fail using double the sp, maybe you cant concentrate the energy and make the damage % lower nd so on

Exactly.

Could be different things each time "a weave fails". Higher % draining sps and lower % hitting everyone in room, whatever % can be decided.



Yup canni, stuff like that is what I'm hoping for.

Galnor/Imms, Liking the thought process so far? I think we are gettin somewhere, or at least getting some ideas down on the chalkboard to hopefully help your intuitive minds make some cool channelers

it should also be a lot rarer when they fail weaves. also fireballs should do 400 damage.

400 damage? rp needs to be sacrificed a little in order to keep gameplay balanced...

Trin wrote:with flee lag as it was there were no other dmg weaves someone could do against an opponent.

Maybe for some people I guess, others didn't suffer from the problem.

ok so i was reading one of the books and i remembered that a lot of channelers in the books didn't find out they could channel for a loooong time, like Nynaeve, where she was just a Wisdom for a long time and then all of a sudden she was told she had the gift so she began to find out how to weave and stuff.

so here's the idea: if you create a channeler, you cannot channel in the beginning, each level you gain is a diceroll, and there's a % chance you will "find out you have the spark" every time you level. the higher level you gain, the bigger % you will "find out" and begin to channel, and of course if you're unlucky if you hit level 50 there will be 100% chance you will begin to channel. example:


Level 1 - no channel

You gain a level!
Level 2 - 4% chance you will be able to touch the Source.
You gain a level!
Level 3 - 6% chance you'll touch the Source
You gain a level!
Level 4 - 8% chance you'll touch the Source.

etc etc

Level 34 - 68% chance you'll touch the Source

each level the chances of you being able to start channeling is raised 2%

or maybe the % can be changed so that after 30 theres a big chance and before 30 there's almost no chance. The level where you start channeling looks like this:


You gain a level!
You start to feel very sick, and realize there's an energy pulsing inside of you. You reach out...

or whatever.



what do you guys think?

I actually love this idea. With the new exp system of it being harder, would take a while for channelers to be usable, and it makes beautiful rpish sense.

It is stupid how they do it on wotmud, where rp is supposedly very important, b/c channeling right off the batt(evne though their are maluses) is actually very naive.

I like it alot Nicotine, but I'd like to hear others, there might be ways that this won't change much(but still it would be a good process, i think.)

I like this idea, it'll be a helluva lot more RPish this way. I'd be more heavily in favor of "discovering" your power being more likely after lvl 30, rather than a steady progression. It'd be sucky if one person could channel at lvl 10 and another couldn't until 40. Or perhaps make it so that they still have a steep % chance that they can't sieze/embrace at will until after they hit 30, and perhaps randomly mess with their weaves or SP costs.

Two thumbs up, though now I've made more questions than we started with.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I. Should channies be unable to channel at first, or "discover" the Source?

II. If they have to discover it, how should their chances for touching the Source go?
___A. Linear? (2, 4, 6...58...82...100) or
___B. Non-linear? (0, 0, 2...74...92...100)

III. Should "wilders" (those who can channel before lvl 30) face special restrictions such as a partial block?

IV. If wilders should have blocks, what mechanical solution(s) should represent their block? Inability to embrace at will (timer to embrace, lag if failed; similar to kick), weave failure, random targets, weave changing, and extra SP cost are just a few thoughts.