KinslayerMUD Forums

Osis wrote:

sorry that my, what, year and a half of being here of offering ideas and suggestions i have had one suggestion of mine(or anyones for that matter) taken.

This is completely and utterly wrong. Stuff used to change every day around here because of player input. Its why we had the idea command.

Think the problem is everyone has there own ideas of how they would like the mud to be. The question is if we can come to an aggreable comprimise so that the largest part of the playerbase is happy. Im sure if we would manage and Galnor agrees he would be happy to implement anything that is possible to him.

Engel wrote:

Osis wrote:

sorry that my, what, year and a half of being here of offering ideas and suggestions i have had one suggestion of mine(or anyones for that matter) taken.

This is completely and utterly wrong. Stuff used to change every day around here because of player input. Its why we had the idea command.

Think the problem is everyone has there own ideas of how they would like the mud to be. The question is if we can come to an aggreable comprimise so that the largest part of the playerbase is happy. Im sure if we would manage and Galnor agrees he would be happy to implement anything that is possible to him.

Of course we will not implement the majority of everyone's ideas. Otherwise the MUD would fail(since people are always biased towards themselves, no matter what they think, even if just slightly). What we're doing here is taking your ideas and bringing them to the Immortal Discussions boards and trying to figure out what would work best.

Trust me, I wouldn't ask for help if I didn't need it.

well atleast you can say i didnt try!

also i would think/discuss about damage weaves being able to be targeted on targets you're not engaged on. perhaps that can be one of the advantages of certain weaves while majority of damage ones can only be targeted at engaged opponent.

I am glad many different opinions have been posted, and for the last time, PLEASE don't stray from the topic...

As Axxey suggested great ideas about possible elements and other possibilities, in the hopes that (as engel said clearly) kinslayer could have its own unique system for channies rather than copying other places is great, I think everyone would like that.

I am glad 2 players who played channies extensively have posted imput, but Engel, I very VERY strongly have to disagree with you about "channelers are fine atm"

I am glad you think that, but, as you are a good pker, I really am kind of confused as to how you can say that statement.

Every time I logged on a channeler, from the beginning when I learned channies a year ago, to now, it is insanely overpowering.

In a newb set on a channie, you only need 220ish defense and you can kill any character on the entire mud, if played correctly. Now, this might not be possible for people who don't use a character class such as the powerful channeler to the max extent, but it is so.

At first, huge problems with channelers was the dodge+bash channeler. To fix that, galnor put in 90% ride req for bashing, which was absolutely great.

Now, it is still possible to pull off a dodge channeler, they just have weak defense, but it is indeed still possible.

Possible setups for channies atm:

1. Dodge basher(rough defense)
2. Dodge stabber(easily attainable)
3. Abs basher(extremely easy)
4. Pure dodge channie(best defense possible, no skills though)
5. Dodge charger

Naturally, dodge pertains to combo too.

I tried all these setups, the least of which I liked was dodge stabber, as, if i wanted to play a stab character, i'd play a non channie.

It is true landing % sucks alot on channies, but the fact that your running stab timers, which could even possibly land, while STILL witholding an arsenal of dmging weaves(status weaves also) is purely insane.

1.Fighting/playing the Dodge basher

-Playing
-due to pulse war, if your last one on, massive problems for enemycan insue
-fighting a basher-even if your bashed solo, you might get def broken, but once you bash, fball + scythe and one round is alot of dmg for one solo bash
-can flee around and not be hit, easily fleeable on kinslayer, thus can stay high health/last pk alot longer...yet of course can get hurt in one bash.
-probably the most sick channeler possible, is the dodge bashing channie, as, you can unload insane dmg b/c target can't budge.
-naturally, only 2h weapons can be used, unless your brilliant and pull off 1h weapon with shield..., but most 2h weapons had low weight, unless the common yew came into play. Still absers stand no chance if the channeler plays it right.
-if fighting dodgers, no problem, just weave them, absolutely powerful character...

-Fighting
-If basher-bash them to hell, hope you land, pulse war goes your way, otherwise your in trouble. This causes majority of bashers vs dodge bashing channies to use patties, which, kills the channeler possibly in one bash. But patties only turn the tide, which isn't skillful. Oh yah, don't get bashed.
-if dodger- flee is your best friend as always....nothing much here, your not gonna be touching that channie unless you have a unique bashing weapon or have buddies with you to break defense. kick possibly works, not the greatest technique though


2. Dodge stabber

-Playing
-play as a normal stabber, throw off other stabbers with timer, engage and use weaves occasionally, land a stab and kill with weaves, pretty much the stabbers dream if stabs land. IF...
- flee....
-Fighting
-Bashers are key here, need bashers, but still, not easy to kill

3. Abs basher

-Playing
-play as an abser, when bashed, use the weaves. can use scythe in btw rounds, so pretty sick abser. just lower hps

-Fighting
-bash them, bash them, and bash them, or melee them and flee, pretty easy to fight, just not nice in groups

4. Pure dodge channie

-Playing
-My favorite setup, as i feel this is how a channeler should be, a character only relying on weaves, as...it's common sense.
- will have best defense, so you can get bashed solo and not get hurt, can weave it up, dodge bashes hopefully.
-weaves weaves weaves, that's all that goes through this chars mind.

-Fighting
-Need that basher....
-tough character to bring down(harder than channie stabber), but then again, likely easier than bashing channies as the channies(if smart) will just bash you and end your life...

5. Dodge charger

-Playing
-charge runs the timer, so bashers can not spam bash you(if charge worked more, but still did occasionaly with yew), thus hurting the basher rightfully
-even if you get engaged when running charge timer, weaves are started instantly

-Fighting

-basher, or def breakers
- same as fighting all dodgers


As you can see, a common theme when playing non-pure channies, is to get timers running(non weave timers) as much as possible, for stab is great against stabbers, as they mostly will enjoy it, but if you stab them crit, they are screwed if played correctly. Charging timers is great b/c throws off...bashing same way, land that bash and doom...

Thus, non-pure channies use these physical timers to advantage, and when they don't, they do what channies naturally do--->channel...creating an overall destructive character...

Common theme when fighting channies...is to have a basher with other players around...yes ds lacks bashers some times, but 99.99% stab is unreal, depends on the time, naturally same as killing any dodger.


Looking at the situation again, I still do not see how "channelers are fine atm"

I really don't. If you could please show me good evidence other than stating that stab landing % sucks(it should..., your dodge/stab, thats sick enough) and other characteristics that makes this class different from other classes please do.

And to engel's reply:

A dodge channie cannot die in one bash from healthy to dead. Can't, unless your fighting nicotine with glass dagger, borgg with heron, lithium with knife, and another stabber with another insane dmg(obsid possibly).

Due to 19 str bonus being takin away(good thing), the stabbers don't frag 2 rounds anymore, only uniques do, and other dagger dmg other than opal/obsid is kinda humours, i tickled a full dodger 2 rounds once, and with obsid only very hard and extremely a few times with 17 str...

And, if there are channies out there, with 270 and less hps, I'd love to see that, and no frags don't do 40 dmg a hit...it's a little less I think, but depends on weapon, can't remember variables.

And the fact that channelers won't be tearing it up in the beginning is merely laughable. They have to lvl up? I'd think other chars have to lvl up too, and any smart person would go stab to lvl up to 50...and I don't see why channies will be naked either...get 5 channies together BUTT naked and they can kill any smob group with flee fball...

So, in an essense, that is imo, completely wrong, the "naked bashers" as i assume you know EVERYONE will be naked, will be gettin their asses owned by smobs..

Give a channeler enough def to dodge parry hits, and the ownage begins.

This info is all driven from my extended exp playing/fighting channelers.

Nowhere in my previous post did I "whine" about ds situation. I merely stated that I see it as a problem, and anyone who thinks channelers are fine atm I'm glad you have your opinion.

I just happen to strongly disagree, but I have nothing against you at all.

Hunting mcs could be possible, but i've never believe this mud is ready for same-side pk, it is mainly a joke that some ppl(gestahl) think is funny.

IF hunting mcs happened, it might be fun, but otherwise i see all players going fcs instead. Problem still comes around.

Best idea is what galnor said, hurt the channies on the pracs, I honestly don't want to see any dodge + ANY phys timer skill.

IF they want to go bash/stab/charge, let them do it abs, they need to be hurt.

Even when channies get downed by pracs, I wouldn't be amazed if they still rock ass.

What is current pracs for thief/war and ranger?

I think it's 3 for warrior, 2 for stab, and 2 for ranger?

Minimally i think should be 3 warrior 3 stab and 2 ranger.

Would be better if 4 warrior, 3 stab, 2 ranger. Then again that's like wotmud.

Possibly make it stay 3 for warrior, 2 stab, 2 ranger.

But then put in a malus like it takes 1.5x as long to get bash/charge. Or 1.5x as long to get the skill backstab.

Now that would hurt like hell. Or possibly instead of gettin stab 89%, 89% on a normal char would be the equivalent of 70%(even lower, lower better probably) on a channeler, or something along that lines for only bash/stab/charge.

Well perhaps some kind of variable like that to apply to phys skills such as stab/bash/charge could have only a channeler malus, so that a channeler could STILL practice shield parry/hide/sneak and all the other pretty much the same as right now.

But I think that might work perfect when it comes to actual practicing.


And then channeler practicing could be done as suggested by others, if you chooose one kind of element or the fireball path...your air scythes or whatnot weaves are weaker dmg/casting/yadda yadda.

Final question= Do ya'll think dodge channies with bash/stab/charge is a good thing?

I don't.

Channies should have either have:

A) dodge + weapon + weapon parry

OR

B) weapon + bash.

No other skills besides ride and notice (and bash if they abs). Other than that they are overbalanced. Atm they are like low int hunters.

another possible is add an additional pulse to every single timer a channeler runs(then balance weave timers from there afterwards) so basically they can be beaten in a stab war, or in a bash war always if the opponent has decent timing.

Thinging of bash wars last person to log on always winning when end on the same pulse is incredibly annoying feature.

That's actually more or less a bug. But I've been working on it.

no point even trying to argue with you vurek, your talking just from presumtions and trying to overpower your favourite class. and you cant even read some of the comments. for instance 40 damage on a frag, if i would of calculated it with that i t would be 520 damage

I agree that channelers are completely sick.

On Erica, I could afford dodge + spear + charge + track + kick, ETC

If charge would have had a higher landing % this round of play, it would have been completely ridiculous to fight me on Erica. As it was, most people just left when I logged her on.

I would like to see the pracs changed just for bashing, charging, stabbing, kicking, like Vurek said, and also the "choosing a talent" whether it be fire, earth, air, water, or spirit, and having one hinder the other, may be interesting to test...

However, I think that everything physical can go on a channeler and EVERYONE would still be happy if MORE WEAVES were implemented so we didn't just get the boring fireballer/scyther every single time.

Yes, I think Erica is the accurate example of a true sick channeler. Not true channeler in only using weaves, but as an extremely good pker in an extremely powerful class.

As Erica kicked tons of ass, she purely definded how to play a channie

Axxey I don't know if lengthing timer for channies would be good at all, that sounds kind disgusting to me, not only for Mr. Galnor, but don't think that completely solves the problem. Would be nasty for player/and fighter still.

And Engel, if your not mature enough to offer any experiences you have with channelers other than channies do indeed die in one bash/stab channie(continuing to say channies are fine..) and a flame about me wanting to overpower a class that I'm not familiar that I have favoritism towards, please refuse from doing so.

I have no problem with your opinions, just post something useful, would be grateful, rather than just giving up. Lord, we get enough of that in the world already.

I suppose I am talking presumptions, but these "presumptions" have been highly gained/written down from personal experience fighting/playing multiple channelers.

I think channelers should be able to do all skills, just be restrained by pracs, which Galnor said he'd do, which is pretty sweet.

Yah, more weaves other than fball/scythe(even zing) would be great. Again, possibly the element influence could have a "dmg weave" for each kind of element.

Water Earth Air Fire (can't remember how book does it...or htf the book does it heh.) could all have 1 dmg weave possibly, but healing would be more inclined in certain areas, as well as porting/wvd other skills.

Would be great if only weaves could be gotten by WT, as Galnor said clanning will be much harder this round, then only few characters would have certain weaves, which sounds great.

So so far "known" changes/things to happen eventually to the channeler class as said by Galnor:

1. Practices
2. Possible weaves/system

I'd be interested if anyone would like to take time to check out books, see if we can somehow get our own "rp system" of weaves rather than the prac xxxx (weave) or prac (element, then prac weave).

Would be cool if something creative popped out, which I'm sure can.

I'd appreciate if anyone could tell me which book talks a ton about channeling? Can't remember if it's book one, which my friend has heh

Ok so I was thinking of some cool weaves that may or may not be a NWIH idea.... here goes

FLOOD - extremely long time to cast, this would set in motion an extremely hard rain that would take 3 tics to turn the entire zone into water rooms

Before you guys say "what the firetruck are you talking about Nico?" i'd like to point out that I've been thinking a lot about how we could get away from WoT here, and I just realized that if we really made better use of water rooms, and water rooms were an active part of pk and the game, we'd have a whole new spin aside from WoT stuff. ok back to weaves:

GEYSER - also extremely long time to cast, this would make every outdoors room in the entire zone have a slight chance to randomly shoot a geyser of steam out of the ground, damaging players and tossing them into different rooms. duration is like 5 tics

CLONE - creates a mirrage or mirror image of yourself that can be grouped. the mirror image will have all your eq, but of course if it dies everything just disappears, because it's not real...also like the higher CLONE was practiced, the more hps it would have. so if you prac'd to 100%, it would have the same hps as you.

AIR SHIELD - turns the air around you rock hard, making you invulnerable to Physical attacks. catch to this is simple: it takes no timer to cast, but once casted you have to stay holding the Source, and each attack round you hold the AIR SHIELD your sps diminish incredibly.

ENERGY BURN - extremely hard to practice, this weave would destroy some of a target's move points, and turn them into health points for you. the higher you have it prac'd, the more you'd steal.

CRIPPLE - it would have to be hard to pull off, but if you did, it would hex the target and for a tic it would take a 2 pulse timer for him to move room to room. each room he enters, he would have to wait the 2 pulse timer before it actually puts him there. CRIPPLE would wear off in a tic.

SPIKE TRAP - extremely long timer, this weave would set a trap so whoever, WHOEVER walked into the room next would trigger the trap and spikes would impale them, causing damage and maybe crippling them for a tic.

IMMOLATION - creates a ring of flames around you, you have to hold the Source to keep it going, and it would cause slight emote dmg each round to the person you're engaged on. it doesn't act as a shield, and your sps will go down each attack round, not as steeply as AIR SHIELD


hrmm. ok more in a bit.

how about.... kamehameha?

Ok more weaves....


WARD AGAINST FIRE (or WATER, SPIRIT, EARTH, AIR) - gives you extra protection for a certain duration against weaves of the element you're warding against.

POLYMORPH - stolen directly from WC3, this would be like a a high-end weave that would transform target person into a mob for a tic or two. while morphed target would be invulnerable to any attack but could not attack either. good for sneaking around if you use it against an ally

HAUNT - weave flows of Spirit around a target that act as a tracking device. target will show up on your "WHERE" menu for 2-3 tics.

ENDURE PAIN - when weaved on an ally, that ally gains 100 hps for 5 attack rounds

INNER GLOW - same as light ball

WHIRLWIND - sends dust from the ground into the air, blinding everyone in the room and dealing minor damage

BALEFIRE - extremely hard to pull off, it kills target and destroys their equipment, target must wait double the time in the circle, and everyone in the zone including the caster is blinded and damaged.

CONFUSION - target becomes confused, and may just as likely hit his allies as his enemies when fighting. basically just puts random targets on all of the confused guy's actions

SUMMON (FIRE, EARTH, WATER, SPIRIT, AIR) ELEMENTAL - creates an elemental that fights by your side and can be grouped, each element could have specific advantages and disadvantages.

EAVESDROP - finely attunes your senses to enable you to listen to what's being said a room away. "channel 'eavesdrop' south" would let you listen to whatever is being said in the room to the south, and it would work through doors, and you'd have to hold the Source the whole time, if you let it go, you'd stop eavesdropping

ETHEREAL FORM - turns you into an ethereal being, you cannot attack or be attacked, but you can weave or be weaved upon, you have to keep holding the Source, and sps will go down each attack round you're holding it.

ADRENALINE - increases your OB by 10 for a duration

BURNING SKY - takes 200 sps to cast, so if you dont have 200 max you can't use it. when you cast it, you lose all sps. fire rains down from the sky, burning everyone in the room. if targets are healthy - wounded, it brings them to 1 hp above battered. if they are battered - critical, it brings them down to 1 hp. only works in outdoor rooms.

super saiyen..

I think we should stick more book based...forget the polymorphing and elementals.

now that i reread, i completely agree, valentin

picallo 's twerly killer beam..

I agree channies have always been overpowered, I wouldnt even play mine due to the inbalance. my logging on obould was a great way to kill pk. Erica was always fun to pk against, almost had her the week before the mud went down but my stabbage sucked that day, ran around stabbing channies to beat for a week.

I like the stat cap the way it is atm for channies but once pracs are harder to obtain channies will be more balanced and then we might not have 90% of the mud playing channies

I look forward to even odds pk one day soon.

Vurek wrote:Yes, I think Erica is the accurate example of a true sick channeler. Not true channeler in only using weaves, but as an extremely good pker in an extremely powerful class.

As Erica kicked tons of arse, she purely definded how to play a channie

Axxey I don't know if lengthing timer for channies would be good at all, that sounds kind disgusting to me, not only for Mr. Galnor, but don't think that completely solves the problem. Would be nasty for player/and fighter still.

Erica was a good example of an incredably stupid weapon at work. Which was then also incredibly flooded the game when someone loaded the overpowered unique on a mob.(it then got downed but nothing like it should have been)

My point of adding a pulse to every timer was so that they could still do any skill any other class might use but they wouldn't be able to win stab/bash wars against characters that are using their own primary skill unless that person stuffed their skill up.
Forces a channeler to use thier own primary skill, that of channeling.

If i start channeling Trollocs always run, however if i do a stabwar with them they stay. So i think that would pretty much ruin all channeler pk.

secondly i havnt seen a single person run and rent when erica loged on who wouldnt fight a normal channeler. The only reason people let her charge was that it has like 1/kazzillion land chance.

If people rented cause erica logged on they had something wrong with them. Hehe, i can remember when I had never heard of her at all, had no idea who she was, she attacked me when i was up smobing raken so i killed her. Growler was also not that great channie vs channie when he didn't have stupidly overpowered master weapon bringing bash into equation.

Yew spear didn't need to charge, it was a stupid weapon all round, I'm sure people noticed trollocs using them(trollocs can't charge) with great success. When it was first in game it(and all spears/lances) landed at a very high rate before equation was tweaked.

i think just lowering spmax / regen will solve all the problems that people have with channelers

If you didn't get my point, was to say that erica was a good channeler, at the end, she wasn't the greatest in the beginning, as we aren't all kickass at all types of playtypes when we start them.

Her usage of spears portrays how channelers can be easily abused, and her sleeping and charging and whatnot really pushed how a channeler could be played to the max.

And by that I mean the diversity of a channelers ownage. Doesn't require skill, although it popped up sometimes *wink* nico, but that was my point.

Still haven't had time to check out books, been busy.